Aa rsv
 

Can we get a run down of how it works with the new TA? Lots of us outside curious to know what new hire life will be like there or in the event of a merger w/US

Language regarding driving distance to domicile
Min days off
Short/long call times
Early release
Assignment of flying (junior/time remaining etc)
Pay premiums associated?
Out of base assignments?

Thanks

Okay, this is me not looking anything up; feel free to chime in if you know I'm wrong:

1. driving distance to domicile has never been codified beyond "reasonably available via surface transportation." That can mean different things at different bases. In MIA, guys sit reserve clear up to Stuart and beyond. I've personally flown with guys who sit reserve successfully from their homes near Kissimmee--a solid 3hr,45min drive from MIA. Would sitting reserve just south of Orlando be smart in your probationary year? No, it would not.

2. I believe min days off is 12 days per month under the new contract.

3. short/long call times: that's pretty complicated. Short answer is that 'long call' gives you 12 hours to show, 'short call' is when 'reasonably available via surface transportation' becomes a player.

4. early release. It's become more theoretical than actual over the past few years.

5. assignment of flying. I think you're asking whether or not you can tell, based on who else is on reserve with you, whether you are reasonably safe from being called. Short answer is that unless it's the beginning of the month with half the list available, you can't predict whether you will get a call. You can count on your 'cover pilots' evaporating twice as fast as you think they will.

6. Pay premiums. This is at the discretion of scheduling, and is only offered during times of perceived shortage. Currently, most guys I know won't fly premium trips until all those furloughed are back. There are knuckleheads who will, though.

7. Out of base assignments. I'm sure this varies depending on your bid status. In mine, it's rare. I have had occasion to deadhead up to JFK to cover UK flying, though. I look at these sequences as easy and lucrative (I get full pay for deadheading, so a 16hr trip for JFK guys has just turned into a 25 hour trip for me).

Hope this helps.

So living 2:15 drive from base is doable you think?

Absolutely. But during probation, I'd be packed and a quick shower away from leaving the house if you get a call. After probation, take the time you need.

Perfect answers TQ!

I'm on reserve right now. They are constantly flying me into my moveables.

How many movables do you guys have per month?

And is there some sort of premium pay attached to flying into your "movables"?

All days off are moveable except for 3 (sometimes 4) 'golden' days off per month. There are some rules restricting how many and how often scheduling can move days. In practice, for me it's uncommon for Scheduling to move days off. I think they've done it to me twice in the past year. A pilot can in theory move a moveable with Scheduling's concurrence, but that is rarely done (I've never done it). That said, the Chief Pilots have been extremely flexible when I've needed a day off for things beyond my control and have given me days off out of my vacation bank every time I've needed them. Premium pay, again, is at the sole discretion of Scheduling, and it's only given when they are short on manning, and *only* if you would not have been on the hook to fly the sequence anyway (eg, Sched may call on your days off and beg you to fly).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MOU brings the total immovable days to 10.

2 moveable days.
4(?) Golden days. They have to get you to home base by 0000 the night before.
Regular days they can fly into as long as they get you to home base by noon of day 1.

So every day 'off' you'll be off by at least noon of day 1 and by midnight the night before if it's your 'golden' days.

End of month 'you fly the month you're in'. In other words days off next month doesn't matter. On call last day of Jan. but have the first couple days of Feb off? Plans on Feb 1? Good luck. They can send you out on a 6 day trip on Jan 30th and you'll be back on Feb 4th.

That I don't know. I guess I could look it up, but I'm too lazy to. For me, the difference between moveable and not moveable days is next to nil.

Scheduling doesn't move a day unless they have a pressing, immediate need. They are not strategy-minded whatsoever. They won't look a week ahead of time and say "my, we need an extra FO on the 20th, let's screw FO Nola." Their job is just a series of small fires they have to put out before they can go home and leave the chaos to the next guy. By the time they figure out they need to screw you, you should already be home with the phone turned off and a beer in your hand.

What I'm trying to say is (and chime in here if your mileage has varied), the times that Scheduling both need to move a day on you and can contractually alert you in time to make it happen are so rare as to be shocking when it happens.

edit: I have had Scheduling move a moveable to satisfy the 7 day rule. I think they can do this one time per month (if it makes a 'standalone' day off). Sometimes they just give you an extra day off, but that has become less common.

Originally Posted by Trogdor
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MOU brings the total immovable days to 10.

I read this as well.

Aa rsv
 

Yes, just read the NAC road show presentation. 18 days available a month. Days off = 11 immovable + 1 moveable (30 day mo), 11 immovable + 2 moveable (31 day mo).

I've been on reserve since Feb 2012. In that time, only 2 months where I did not have my moveable moved.
6 times I was flown into day off.
4 times I was called and asked to fly at 10pm for a 2:30 am departure into my days off.
They did offer to move my new days off wherever I wanted them.
4th July 2012 on days off they called and left message asking me to fly. I did not return call.
The week before Christmas 2012, I had 1 day remaining of availability. They called at 10:02pm and offered me a 4 days trip at 2:30 am. Promised me Christmas Eve and Christmas off if I helped them out. I told him I had a very long day at home and respectfully declined.
Lots of times I get called at the last minute and get a rolling 24 off, not a calender day.
Reminder, your 24 off in 7 can be in a foreign country.
Long call doesn't mean much when they can call you at 7pm for a 825am domestic flight without being on a RAP. Good luck commuting in for that one. I live in base and pretty much have to.

Since last Feb 2012 premium pay has never been offered to reserves in my status.
In my whole time at AA i've never recieved premium pay. I've never signed up for it. Nor do I want it.
TQ Nola may be senior reserve on his aircraft, I do not know. I'm junior reserve. It's a different ball game.
Just my slice of life on reserve. As stated by all YMMV
Cheer,
7576FO

Thanks for the help fellas. Sounds like aa merger would certainly be beneficial from a new hire us RSV perspective. Among others

I've had HI6's (the company's jurassic-age way of communicating to individual pilots) in most of the last several months saying they are 'invoking' their right to offer premium pay for the next few days (I'm MIA 76 I). I've never flown it, though I have been called (once) by CS and had them beg me to fly on my days off. I chuckled when I listened to the message, and continued sipping my beer.

You should NOT be fixated on premium pay. It is NOT a way to supplement your income. It's more of a way to be identified as a colossal douche.

I was hired 13 years ago; I am currently on the ragged edge of holding a line, so it sounds like I'm a little senior to you, 7576FO... it's odd to remember that 13 years ago I was in a newhire class listening to Kudwa tell us we were going to be captains in 5 or 6 years. Instead I was furloughed for over 3 years (we have guys who've been furloughed for 11 now). I'm reserve about 2/3 of the time.

That said, those numbers will not apply to newhires in 2013. If you are lucky enough to be hired at the beginning of what is looking like the next wave, you will probably be the 'golden boy' with the golden career, at least to those who get hired 2 or 3 years after you. It took some of us *years* to get back to the base we wanted, eg DFW or LAX or ORD. For some others of us, it will never happen (eg I was based in SFO prior to furlough, and obviously don't plan on making it back).

I commuted to MIA to sit reserve up until 2 years ago, and it SUCKED. I'm amazed I'm still married.

My core advice to anyone who gets on with us: move to a domicile, specifically one you feel you'll be able to hold for the foreseeable future. I don't have a crystal ball--I certainly wouldn't have been an airline pilot if I did--but at AA, this right now means MIA or LGA, with DFW as the darkhorse.

Sitting Reserve in your own home, with your kids running around and the dog wandering over for pets from time to time, cannot be compared to sitting in a crashpad with 3 or 7 other poor bastards ticking off the time until they can go back home. Every time I get off the plane and go to my car and drive home (instead of walking to the crackhouses outside the employee parking lot to sit in my pad) I have a little thrill of relief.

Who determines, "reasonably available via surface transportation?". I live 4 hours from base and consider the drive very reasonable if I can live at home versus a crashpad. Can anyone really tell you it took too long to get to the airport if there is no time specified in the contract? I have a crashpad now with Airway's 90 minute call out but would obviously much rather sit at home.

This sounds like something that management could easily change over time and pilots could do nothing about it.

If they call you for a flight going out in an hour, their definition may be that 30 minutes is a reasonable time. Other people typically live within 30 minutes of their workplace. Didn't get there in that time? You just caused a delay and you're going to pay.

I'd be worried about this type of ambiguity.

But our job has very little in common with "other people." Other people drive to and from work 5 times a week and sleep in their own beds every night. Management can't change the contract at will. Even if management decides on a "reasonable time," the contract has to be amended to reflect the new restriction or its not a restriction.

"Must be reasonally available by surface transportation"

It is what it is. Never give them a time that you can be there. Just ask if they put the trip on your schedule. For me there is no sign in time on reserve. I get there when I get there. I don't care if they said it leaves in 30 minutes.
Some guys live in Orlando and will straight up tell the scheduler, put me on a plane or it's gonna take me awhile to drive.
I've spoken with several pilots that got harrassed when they told scheduling 4 hours. So, never tell them a time. You don't know. You don't know what traffic on I95 is like. You will get there when you get there.
For those hoping of being a new hire and commuting to reserve, you will be miserable. If you do not live (rent or own) in base you made your bed, don't wine about it.

I have a Zoning Hearing Board Meeting to attend. It's always the first Thursday of the month and you have to schedule it a couple months ahead. I will miss this months meeting and I have to cancel and pay all the fee's again. How easy is it to get that Thursday off reserve LGA 80?

It may seem contrary to common sense, but this ambiguity is the best thing about this stipulation, and most if not all AA pilots would agree. In practice, you will NEVER get flack for sitting reserve 2 hours away from your base. Scheduling may gripe about 3 hours, but I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone getting slammed for it in any way. While I was at SFO, guys sat in Fresno on reserve without a problem. If you know the Bay and how long it takes to get anywhere there with traffic, Fresno can sometimes be practically on the moon.

4.5 hours (the Fresno sit with traffic) is as far out as I've ever heard the term "reasonably available" stretched to encompass. Maybe there's something longer up at LGA.

EDIT: these times WILL NOT APPLY to you in your probation year! You'll just have to suck it up for a few months. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: don't stretch to the limits of the rules when whether you keep your job still depends partly on the (un)happiness of others.

Rider850, you'd probably get it off organically most months. If your schedule didn't fall right, your Chief would probably give you that day off as a vacation day, or if you didn't have vacation, as a non-paid day off.

Thanks.....

That may be quite reasonable for a pilot who's not on probation. I guarantee you will be under tremendous pressure to not do that your first year, and it would be a very good idea to give way to that pressure until you're off probation.

Thanks. If there is a merger and by the time the POR rolls around, probation will not be an issue for me.

Crew skd keeps bringing up '2 hrs'. The union has fought, and won, 'reasonable available'. It was kept in the MOU.

Not too many guys live within 2 hrs of of either JFK, EWR, or LGA. Pick the worst airport for each direction EWR for the east, LGA for the south, and JFK for the NW, and more and more guys can't make some made up time.

The typical practical limit is about 4 hrs. A bunch of guys live about 3 hrs and the percentage increases dramatically inside of 3 hrs. Once you get to 4+ hrs most guys fly.

On probation it's not worth your career getting dragged into the office for late trips, or missed trips, because you're pushing the limit. Can you? Knock yourself out. Remember it's probation.

Keep in mind that probation ends on the last day of probation and NOT the last day of the last trip prior to the end of probation. Guys have lost their jobs in that window.

As a guy who is coming from a regional and has spent the better part of 7years riding the rsv pine of 90mins to the gate or your doa... This is like listening to Mozart!
Thanks for towing the line on your contract guys! We appreciate it.

Some of us have most of these stipulations already in our crummy regional (XJT) contracts... Only bright spots I see are sounds like AA gets an extra day off each month and that "reasonably available distance" thing sounds pretty swank. Otherwise we have the standard 2 hours for short call/12 hours for long call.

I'm curious, are the new reserve rules better/worse/about the same as the old rules?

One other thing I found as a noob sitting on AA reseve... I lived fairly close to the airport, and crew schedule figured it out. Sometimes, I'd get an assignment where they wanted a warm body immediately, and since they knew my living arrangement, they skipped people and went right to me. This was back when there was actual seniority on reserve, and you could pass.

Just because I am the closest thing to airport standby, doesn't mean they get to violate the contract.

My point - once off probation, hold them to every single contractural item. Know your contract. And never volunteer the fact that "Oh yes, I live right next to the airport, I can be there in 15 minutes." You end up on some sort of secret "list.".

Doesn't it help you out to do the schedulers a favor every once in a while? If you help them out of a jam, won't they be more inclined to do you a solid when you need one? Seems like normal human interaction to me...

That's what most people think, but pilots are a jaded bunch, they've been dicked for decades (like jets for jobs) and it's in the blood to be pessimistic about scheduling interaction. I've always been friendly but firm if it looks like they're calling out of order. Sometimes the advantage of answering when you don't have to is that you get a choice of trips, which for me seems to happen about every week. Luck or not?

I have to smile at this one!

For 99% of (AA) schedulers, you are a widget that either fits in the next hole or doesn't. They will be nice if that helps to fit you in the hole, or try to intimidate you if that helps. They have ZERO memory of what you did or did not do for them last time; if it is necessary to screw you over, they will do so without a qualm. That's their job.

I imagine the schedulers are *crying* for newbie pilots they can browbeat into going the extra mile, it's been so long since they've seen them here. They've had nothing but grouchy contract-savvy lumps to work with for so long now!

No matter what I say, you'll think "surely he's wrong; surely schedulers are caring humans" when you get hired. That's just loveable, naive human nature. I did it, too. But that first time you get screwed sideways (after you've bent over backwards several times to help out) will cure you. There IS no other cure.

Remember this, too: if you assign a particular ringtone to Scheduling, do NOT assign them, for instance, a snippet of a song you like! I'm telling you you'll learn to fear and despise whatever tone you give them. Personally, I've assigned a WWII British air raid siren to their number. I imagine that English persons during the Blitz feared and despised that noise more than I do... but not by much!

All that said, there is ONE scheduler I will help out if I can. Other MIA 76 FO's probably know who I'm talking about. She's the exception that proves the rule.

Exception proves the rule? Majority of my crew skd contacts are fine. Some are OK, and some are great.

It's the contract. Sometimes they push the rules. If they're wrong stick to your guns. They didn't write the contract and *****ing at them because you don't like the contract gets nowhere.

Does having a reasonable relationship with crew skd pay off? Are you decent to people because you're trying to get something out of the relationship? Or do you choose to be decent to people in the first place?

That's all fair to say. But having a 'reasonable relationship' is not the same as having a 'personal relationship.' And if you expect your relationship with individual schedulers to resemble the personal relationships you have in your day-to-day life, you will be disabused of that notion in short order.

Does she sound like one of those phone sex operators?

They're not calling me for a date. They want a body in the seat. We both get that.

I've gone down and introduced myself or have been asked to stop by. Do the same with dispatch. Puts a face behind the name for both of us.

Yes, we both get that. My advice isn't for you, it's for an FNG.

At every recurrent I go upstairs. I've met many schedulers and dispatchers.
Contrary to some of my posts here, AA is not a place I can recommend to anyone.
From A to Z this place is the worst of ALL the majors.
The only positive thing I can say about life at AA is on reserve, if there is more than one trip open when they call you, you'll have a choice. If there is one person below you on reserve you may pass.

We now have no profit sharing. Yes, many will say when offered the choice of wages in ink vs. questionable profit sharing, go for the ink.

This place keeps taking and taking.

Just finished the book retirement heist. There's several pages on USAir, and AMR (AA and through American Beacon) are making bank (stealing) from us.

Before you apply to AA, do your research and call an AA pilot. Or ask here. This goes way beyond treating you like a number. Way beyond.

Note to all young pilots. When I was a young 25 yr old commuter pilot I started a 401K. No matter where you choose to work, start one immediately!

As a new guy, I did a number of favors for CS. Then, I'd call to see if they could help me with a trip trade, or a day off due to a family issue, or any one of a number of things called normal human life.

They didn't tell me to eff off, but the result was the same. Thus, I don't do them favors any more. They've done none for me.

True story: I was reserve MD-11, on a Golden Day off. I was scheduled to be on call at midnight. At 1830, the phone rang. It was CS, calling, I assumed, for a trip the next day.

"We need you to cover the all-nighter to Santiago Chile tonight. It leaves at 2000."

"But I'm on a golden. You can't do that."

"Here's your choices. You can cover this trip now, or we will re-schedule it for 0101, with a sign in of 0001. And you will fly it then. You can go now, or delay 225 people 5+ hours. What'll it be?"

I took the trip. I was going to fly it anyhow, so why screw over the pax? If we had been in one of our many horrendous contract negotiations, I would have let them reschedule the trip. :rolleyes: