App window possibly opening in August
 

OCT start date, estimating 600 new hires (thru next year.)
App window most likely opening in August.
No more 3-day process like it used to be.
All this from several sources at the school house, including union folks. (still not 100% official but pretty close to it.)

Good luck to all, gonna be great to have new hires here again.

Interesting. And good news. I bet the hiring process gets merged with US sooner rather than later. No point in hiring to two separate sides after the POR.

Would there be any benefit of getting hired at AA instead of US in the fall? Is it DOH for those hired after the Feb 14 announcement?

Does AA do a probationary checkride like Eagle?

I don't know, but US Air has a weird hiring process. They just rejected me, because I didn't meet their requirement of going through a newhire groundschool within the previous 4 or 5 years.

You would think the company would want to hire somebody who has a stable employment history instead of bouncing around from job to job.

Maybe when AA starts hiring, they'll have more reasonable requirements.

Flyby: Nobody knows exactly when the "snap shot" will be. For now, it's probably safe to assume (Misnomer!) that anything after 2/14/13 would be DOH. To me, getting hired by either/or is one and the same at this point.

Probationary check ride? Good question. I know I had to go in to the chief's office at my 1 year anniversary for the official blessing. Was supposed to be kind of a mini oral but we ended up shooting the sh1t. I also had a check engineer around the 1 year mark who "observed" my most excellent duties keeping the cabin temp, pressurization, and fuel all within reasonable (new hire) limits. :D

Actually, there is. Until the SOC and SLI are complete, the two sides still operate separately for all intents and purposes. US is hiring now because we need bodies now. AA is recalling now because it needs bodies now, and is hiring because its run out of recalls that want to come back. While it won't matter which side you get hired on if you're hired now (the correct answer is, whoever calls first!), there will probably be separate hiring for the next 12-18 months until the logistics of stitching the two airlines together are resolved.

The closure of the corporate transaction this summer/fall has no impact on any of that.

VFC

wow, what is this ? 1998 ?

great news aa73, congrats for your company. My opinion is AA has a great future as it exits the current storm cells

Ya, My understanding was Eagle has a 1 year ride that if you fail your done. Didn't know if that was a carry over from AA.

US Air moves your second check ride up a few months to serve as a probationary ride.

Is not a fail and you are out at Eagle, but if you are found unsat in the PC and have question marks in your first year at the company, missed assignments, being late and multiple sick calls then after a board meets and your probie reports are examined you could be sent packing.

I don't think the AA "observation ride" is really a check ride. More of a formality. I could be wrong though. AA training is all AQP and "train to proficiency." Lemme check on it...

If true, this would eliminate every military guy applying.

There is a good explanation for why they want this. They want someone who has proven that they can excel through a 121 ground school in a glass cockpit aircraft. There have been new hires in the recent past that have only flown one AC type in the last 10 years and/or steam gauges and they struggled and fell behind in ground school. They are trying to prevent this by asking the 5 year question, as requested by the training department. It's a currency of training experience question.

BTW congrats to AA for opening the new hire flood gates!

Think they may use airlineapps or a third party company like US?

Thanks for the update, 73. Was the "600" estimation including Eagle flows or just striaight street hire numbers ?

Considering Eagle's "824 agreement" provides for at least 20 pilots per month minimum and as many as 50% of a class maximum, that could add several hundred more pilots coming aboard and theoretically doubling that 600 figure if they got 50% of every class from Eagle and the 600 number was a street hire figure only.

eaglefly, I have no idea... but I suspect it's 600 total, meaning, everyone - street, eagle, etc. Bring it on!

"Recent training event"
 

In the past they wanted to see a new rating, not necessarily ground school. A new type would suffice. According to one of the guys on the hiring board this is being removed in the near future, do not let this stop you from applying. Keep the app updated and keep applying every window.

Through these doors pass the best trained crews in the world.

Just dont tell anyone that Eagle pilots walked through that door too! ;)

Maybe that's why hardly any military pilots getting calls from USair. No one in my KC-10 unit can seem to get an interview after applying over and over including myself.

Which is weird, because the majority of people I know getting calls for interviews have military service on their resume.

US Air is 100% random. You can be a astronaut and I don't think it'd get you a call quicker than a Dash-8 FO.

Being an astronaut definitely would NOT get you called faster than a Dash-8 FO. There's a good chance any Dash-8 FO applying to Airways is from one of the wholly-owns. Airways has some sort of preferential interviews in place for the wholly-owns.

Fact - Of the 21 new hires in the 4/29 class, 3 had military experience. The reality is, with flow through agreements at the legacies (AA, US, Delta), the quickest path to a number is from the regionals. (Maybe United doesn't have any flow-through arrangement..I'm not sure.)

US Air is definitely picking up military pilots.

Maybe I can apply to USAir, and get hired and be senior to myself at American. Thanks Darrah/White. You guys effectively wiped an airline and it's pilots off the map.

FF,

If you leave UPS to come here, I will personally see to it that Bill Engvall comes up with a whole new comedy routine of "Here's Yer Sign." Because guess what, anyone hired after 2/14/13 will most likely end up with DOH - both your hire date AND the Bart Simpson signature line. You know, junior to ALL natives. Then you're gonna have to come up with a whole new line of rants!

See my other post on getting laid.

Love,
73

Pilots with strictly military experience, or pilots with mixed mil/civ backgrounds?

Based on what I've read here, US Air's competitive requirements make it difficult for those with strictly military experience to get an interview call, especially for those that separated from AD after 10-12 years of military flying (traditional Guard/Reserve with currency), slightly less difficult for recently retired military with currency.

It may be that a recently hired US Air pilot's military experience is purely coincidental to their 121 experience. I am aware of few exceptions, but as where 12 years of strictly military time (fighters = 2500 TT/2000 TPIC, heavies = ?) is more than competitive at some major airlines, I don't think it is at US Air.

Many 2000 TPIC military folks are going to the regionals for various reasons. My opinion is that with the advent of third-party HR process, the K/S/T screening paradigm drastically favors 121 experience over military experience.

I'd love to be shown otherwise.

When I go to job fairs with around 5000 TT I feel under qualified. I don't think 2500 TT will cut it right now when they have more than enough applicants. With the PIC u talked about just get on with a regional and build ur flight time and I would imagine u would have a leg up over us civilians with the same flight time.

When I talked to the Airways recruiters at WAI, they told me getting your ATP would suffice for the recency of training.
For me it wasn't a problem, I had cross-flowed into the C-130J in 09, so I was fine. But, I asked for some of my buddies. They said Higher Power fulfilled that requirement (ATP/737 type).
That being said, Airways hasn't called me for an interview.

For what it's worth, I'd put stock in your assessment. However, I don't think that's the only "glitch" in the 3rd party outsourced system.

A few app windows ago, it was the question about being through a newhire/upgrade course recently. If no, better luck next time. The most recent window, it had the same question. But follow up questions if you HAVEN'T been though one that seemed to be a little more logical. Asking how many training events/courses have you completed, and the dates IIRC. So it would seem that slowwwwwwwly they may broadening the system up. If the trend keeps up, I'd venture to guess that if they ask if you have formal/mil training it would bypass or send one down a different road of questions.

If it's all mil time, and soon to be separated or recently separated and current, IT IS QUALIFIED. Most companies do a "peer group comparison rack and stack". IOW, if it's all mil time, it's being compared to other all mil candidates. For the mil guys that go to the regional, it's usually not a flight time issue. It's usually more about getting current if they haven't flown and broadening the experience on the resume. Been beat to death in the mil section. At BOTH the companies I worked at, a mil pilot that went regional didn't last very long there when there was hiring going on at the higher levels.

For military, it's not really the time that matters as long as the mins are met, whether with or without the sortie conversion. It's being an IP/StandEval/NATOPS, etc that sets them apart from their peers in the hyper competitive environment right now.

Xjtguy, I agree with everything you just said.

In 2001 835 TWA Captains were assigned seniority numbers 2000-6000 on the AA seniority list ALL senior to me and my Feb 19, 1999 seniority date.

Of the 100 TWA captains that are junior to me, many were displaced for 6 months to 1 year and then reinstated to Captain. The majority of the 100 TWA captains junior to me are captains now.

There is an arbitration right now finishing to decide to give TWA Captains protected bid statuses at each base. The decision will be announced mid-June.

If nearly ALL TWA captains kept their seats, how can you say "You guys wiped out an airline off the map" ?

AGAIN: Nearly ALL TWA Captains kept their seats. They either retired from them or are still in them.

AND: To be fair 1200 TWA Co-pilots furloughed along with 700+ AA co-pilots.


7576FO

The environment "is what it is" as they say. Not the first time there's been this kind of High supply/Low demand for pilots, expecting to change shortly. Mid to early 90's was VERY similar to the current situation, for both civ and pure mil pilots.

Why you haven't gotten a call from the places you're trying with your qualifications is beyond me.

I think a military pilot with a strong background (lots of instructor/examiner experience, plus maybe safety/dir. of ops) will have a really good chance of being invited for an interview in the next few years. Just hang on, keep those apps updated and continue to network and prepare.

Next few years?! I'm hoping next few months! Like, before the end of 2013.

We all hope that! But seeing that there's more of us than positions right now we'll have to stand in line...here's hoping to get called sooner rather than later!

We had many furloughed TWA Captains who flowed back to AE- I flew with them. They are now "back" at AA, albeit some in the right seat.

You are both correct. And incorrect.

7576 is correct that many TWA CAs not only kept their seats, but went on to enjoy left seat AA pay and retire from AA.

Cipollini is correct that many TWA CAs went straight from left seat to furlough.

Actually, there is historical precedence: back in 1985 when SWA purchased Muse Air (and renamed them TranStar), they went on to shut them down and laid off 100% of the pilots.. CAs and FOs. They then offered the pilots "re-interviews" for their jobs. And that was done in a thriving economy.

AA on the other hand had a mess on their hands: purchasing the assets of a troubled airline and shortly thereafter, 9/11: hence the huge furlough that affected thousands of both AA and TWA pilots.

You guys can argue until you're blue in the face as to what was fair and what wasn't, who got screwed and who didn't. The end result was that APA crafted a deal that has both sides yelling "UNFAIR" - however, they negotiated that deal using a PROCESS deemed unfair by Congress, hence Bond-McCaskill.

I was always critical of the process used by APA. While I realize I (and all AA pilots) pay union dues so that our union protects us, I also never believed that APA wanted to play by the rules most other unions used for SLIs - with the exception of SWAPA (which also tends to call its own shots.) I was always a firm believer that Binding Neutral Arbitration is the fairest PROCESS to iron out a SLI, and that is what should have been used with AA/TWA. Of course, they never solicited my opinion on the matter (although I did publicize my opinion more than once.)

In other words: I'm all for my union protecting me, but please do it using a fair, industry-proven process.

So, again - to set the record straight once again:

- Some TWA pilots (top 1/3) prospered after the AA/TWA deal (those that kept their CA seats and retired)
- Many TWA pilots (bottom 2/3) got royally screwed after the deal (those that got stapled/furloughed)
- Many AA pilots got royally screwed by the bad management decisions of the TWA purchase and Supp CC taking their flying away (DFW and ORD.) Many AA pilots also got furloughed after 9/11. (IMHO, AA was forced to furlough many more pilots as a result of the TWA deal. Without the TWA deal, I highly doubt we would have furloughed that many.)
- The process used by APA - crafting a deal with AMR and excluding the TWA pilots from it - was deemed unfair by Congress and resulted in Bond-McCaskill legislation to prevent that from happening again.
- However, in all fairness to APA, they were fed up at that point by the unrealistic demands - and boycotted meetings - by TWALPA, which finally led to the crafting of Supp CC between APA and AA. This bore much resemblance to SWA and Muse Air, when SWA finally got fed up with Muse's unrealistic demands. It's also reminiscent of the SWA/Frontier deal, where Frontier pilots wouldn't budge either. Yes, it has happened before - IMHO, AA was pretty close to dumping the whole TWA deal without an agreement at that point, hence the rushed Supp CC "gunshot wedding."

In the end - just like ANY and EVERY past merger - many folks on both sides feel they have been screwed, and will continue to feel that way forever, no matter what the argument.

I will concede that APA's (and SWAPA's) abuse of the system - crafting their own integrations by pointing a gun to the other side - led to government intervention on SLIs for the first time ever in airline history. That says a lot.

"The end result was that APA crafted a deal that has both sides yelling "UNFAIR" - however, they negotiated that deal using a PROCESS deemed unfair by Congress, hence Bond-McCaskill."


And courts have ruled "fair enough".