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All in one post and you call me numb nuts.

You said it was the first proposal. It was not. We had been negotiating for almost two years.

ALPA left the JCBA talks and I have said that I thought it was a mistake. I told them it was a mistake. I don't think it was a mistake because it kept us from getting a contract, but because we were obligated to negotiate and had we stayed in, and really tried, we would have been able to PROVE how hard it was going to be to get a JCBA with the Nic. After leaving all we had was our opinion.

When USAPA took over they tried to negotiate. They actually thought they could get a JCBA with a DOH list. I always thought they were mutually exclusive and when you guys filed the DFR I knew they were.

I've always said the a good enough "Nic inclusive" contract would pass a vote. I just thought that the series of circumstances, with the great recession being a big one, made that very difficult or impossible.

Great reply. An absolutely stunning reply.

I'm not in ALPA now, but I was under the impression that the ALPA merger policy changed after our disaster. Am I wrong on that? If I'm correct, why did it change if there were no problems with the Nicolau award and the handling of our SLI?

I went to the ALPA dog and pony show that YOU paid for. It was a sight. They spent, I'd estimate, hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. Offered to buy my trip, pay for my room in one of the best hotels in CLT, drinks, dinner, breakfast and lunch. I went because I wanted to be informed, but I took nothing but a coke and sandwich because I didn't want to be bought. They had some really good information that all pilots should have seen. Had they not pxxxxx off so many pilots with the way the did it, maybe more would have seen it. I was told in that meeting that ALPA acknowledged that the Nic was a mess and the merger policy failed. They said it would change, but unfortunately there was nothing they could do for us.

The Nicolau clearly violated the objectives of the then ALPA policy.

Give us the definition of repression cacti and tell us how I'm the one doing it.

You are the one that wants to white wash and simplify what happened. You are so simple minded that you believe all you have been fed by Holmes and the AOL band. Like any major event, this is not as simple as you make it out to be. You completely gloss over the one major fact in this mess-the flawed transition agreement and the fact that it allowed it to happen. I have told you over an over again that I disagreed with the WAY the east handled this, but it was not going to just roll on, no matter what method was used. You also fail to acknowledge any mistakes on your side.

Like many major disasters in history and many aviation disasters, this mess was a string of events that created to perfect environment for it to happen. If we had changed a few thing, this may have never happened. But we didn't and here we are.

So WD, if it's "really that simple", had we stayed in ALPA and just never ratified a JCBA and were at the exact same place, would you be happy?

I had no problem with ALPA and frankly neither did you in the east. It wasn't until Lee told you he could get you out of the arbitration results basically by stalling for years that any of you did. That stalling has come at a considerable price to your career however. Yes the east has been allowed to circumvent the process and take seats they were not entitled too but that will all iron itself out as well. The price you have paid as well as all the other east captains is that of being locked in at LOA93 rules and rates for the same duration.

The east pilots that were already captains at the time have financed that stalling. There are many that retired and several more to come at that horrid pay scale. The really really funny part is that you and many other captains have paid that price for them and the NIC will still be used in the end so in essence that makes you all very foolish.

WD at AWA

Actually, I doubt that I would be a captain had the Nic gone through, so I think with a contract that we could achieve with our fractured group I'm at breakeven or ahead. The guys that were already captain and those that will retire on LOA 93 really lost out.

How about what the west has lost out on? I had a 10 year west guy on my jumpseat a while back. He is still on reserve, pulling down about $89 an hour. That is awful, compare him to a SWA guy hired at the same time instead of LOA93. That's the issue I have with you guys.

So if everyone agrees the pay is substandard, why not negotiate better pay? Do it as LOA 94 and bump it back up. I don't care what happens with the NIC but the pay is ------- disappointing.

I understand people are upset by the NIC and that R57's head might explode, but how exactly is final and binding not final? If the Union didn't want it, it shouldn't have agreed to it. :eek:

Well that explains a great deal about the person now doesn't it? I see that you agree that your brothers and sisters over there paid for your move over with the remainder of their careers.

Yes it is a mess that we have 10yr guys on res that brought jobs to this abortion with usair while folks like yourself played invasion of the body snatcher taking seats and positions that you were not entitled to! Pilots that were on furlough are now working while pilots that were working are now furloughed all because of the east and usapa. The really sad thing is that bridge will never be mended as a result. That 10yr res west pilot however makes more than the east pilot that put him/her in that position and even more than those that took 190 capt slots.

Not to worry however as I tell every west first officer that the east is just sitting your reserve for you in that seat. This will all be over in 2014 and the wrongs will be made right.

WD at AWA

Why would my head explode? I have said on here before that, absent outside events, I thought the west pilots would eventually win. Just at a great cost and by the time they won the return would be diminished.

As ALPA members we had no choice to accept it's merger policy. Do you "accept" the taxes you pay?

The company will not do what you are suggesting. They are using the Nic to keep their costs low. Their DJ was a complete crock. They just saw how good the Addington suit was a keeping their costs down and jumped on the legal delay bandwagon. The top management of this company has hugely personally profited from our fight.