New Hires in PHX
 

Anyone have insight as to how this is going to work? If one was to want PHX and not get it can he/she bid it next bid period (airbus to airbus) and same question if you get PHX and would like to end up in an east coast domicile (airbus to airbus)...

Nothing until SLI...lots of peeps waiting for PHX.

No openings in PHX currently. The US Airways and America West pilot groups have never been combined so we operate under two separate and distinct seniority lists. The America West pilot group had 45 on furlough until recently. The company did publish a letter last fall that all the West furloughs would be recalled but I don't recall seeing a schedule or any updates since as to the recall progress to date.


It's always possible that attrition could open up PHX in the near future but with a joint certificate not planned till the spring of 2015, I'd guess looking at it today, it may not be until then you could bid that domicile.

The west has a bid open now and at the conclusion they may need new hires.

About a month ago I flew with a west guy that took an east seat. He said that the company gave them the same rights as AA pilots for recall, so they could defer recall for the same length of time. I was under the impression that all west furloughs have been offered recall and have either returned or deferred. He was deferring.

This is a new area for us. Previously you were stuck on one system or another, unless you had been furloughed. We'll see if things have changed.

As has been said, no switching until SLI at best. One other thing to consider is that if you get PHX right off the bat, your hotel (not sure about per diem) might not be paid for during training and indoc. This was apparently how the west operated under their contract. The MTA might change this, I'm not sure. Even if it does change it, who knows when that will happen.

The west bid that just closed had 15 upgrades and 15 FO vacancies. He might be asking this question because, evidently new hires are being told to expect CLT, PHL, or.....yes, it's hard to believe PHX.

When I read through the MOU it seemed to indicate that all (east and west) have the same standards now...same pay, etc.

If they don't pay for hotels that's certainly something to keep in mind!

I was told new hires are being offered PHX, but currently east pilots ie third listers cannot move west. Notice: this is 2 1/2 hand information. I say 2 1/2 because i was told by a new hire and third lister. Hence, it's second and third hand information.

I though the MOU (and AA's Green Book) provided hotels for training in your base if you live outside of 100 miles. Just have to get authorization from the Chief Pilot's Office. I don't know if that applies to new hires or not.

Yes, was told by HR during interview that PHX would be open to new hires during training "as required". If you are unable to change until after SLI are we looking at fourth listers, lol?

I think you are correct we had a commuter on the jump seat that was going to training and he stated that the company is now paying for hotels for commuters.

WD at AWA

Lol. Let's not even go there, this pilot group is fractured enough as it is.

I don't see why 3rd listers can't bid PHX. There is absolutely no dispute in their seniority. Why can't they bid there?

For the majority of the third listers I would completely agree. Unfortunately there are some real nut jobs on the east and some third listers themselves that think they should go above junior west pilots. They are a minority thankfully, but still cause problems for everyone.

I'll be sure to bring a smile and positive attitude wherever I end up.

There is a new hire class starting tomorrow (2/10) and they have been told that there is a chance of PHX openings. We will know shortly.

In '07-08 third listers were being placed either east or west. Once there, you were stuck and could not bid to the other side. My guess is this practice will continue until we are all one big happy family.

More 190 guys in Philly is all we need ;).... Then those guys being held for training can move on up... :)

Where did those hirings fall in the Nic, ALPA, USAPA timeline?

They arrived after the Nic Award, Still 2 separate ALPAs, just prior to the USAPA vote...

Is relative position not good enough for them?

What's the average amount of time that people are being held on the 190 until they can go to training?

11 months for a friend of mine.

11 months past the seat lock or 11 months since initial?

I don't understand the 190. They only have 20 airplanes and it is such a mess to keep it staffed and operating. Why not just sell the fleet and get 20 a319s to replace them? If you can fill 100 seats you can fill 124.

Since Initial

I believe they are much cheaper to operate than the 319

I've heard as much as 3 months.... I think they can hold no longer then 6 months? Maybe 757 or someone else knows for sure?

Eh.... It has a need.... Only two FAs and normally good crews... It's a fun plane and I've noticed I normally have 90-99 passengers. That's 30 open seats on an Airbus which seems wasteful I'd say....

Guys a few numbers senior to me were not held at all. In fact, like someone mentioned already, they went to training 1 month before the seat lock was up. Looks like I'm being held for 1.5 months. I've heard others held for 3 months or so. It all depends on the needs of the airline and training department.

Its perfect for the shuttle

Withholding hasn't been as bad latently. If you bid to DCA or CLT they seem to send you pretty quickly to avoid paying for hotels and expenses while still in PHL. If you bid to PHL then they have been withholding for about 2-3 months.

Any word on the actual class breakdown today?

Sure as part of a merger, yes. They however were hired at the same company as west pilots, single operating certicate. Next time try comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Last time I checked it was DOH when getting hired at an airline, as a new hire. Once again, NOT in a merger scenario where one airline has 17 year reserve FOs and the other airline has 17 year senior captains. What happened to that golden standard? Is it that DOH only applies when it gives you a windfall? "Silly eastie, DOH is for newhires."

There is a difference in training freeze(seat lock period-not allowed to bid another equipment on a system bid) and hold for training(when they can fit you in to school). In the '98 contract that training freeze was 12 months as a new hire, 18 months if your bid requires initial training and 24 months if you voluntarily down bid (e.g., you are a 737 F/O and voluntarily bid E190 F/O). Hold for training was increased to as much as 12 months under LOA 93.

All of the above is if I didn't miss any other changes in a LOA or the MOU sections that are effective!

The company can release you from your freeze at their discretion. Always check your bid selections when a bid comes out and don't bid it if you don't want it. There is a rumor out there that we had a 76 F/O screw up and bid E190 F/O. If so, he is stuck for 18 months. I hope it was a rumor or not his ex-wife that did it.

Oh, all of the above is US East contract.

If class just started today, they won't bid for equipment until tomorrow.

I heard this rumor too. Apparently he had a "percentage bid" on the 76. He fell just below his requested percentage, and viola, on to the next bid...190.

I was 11/11/13 class. The first thing we did on day one was bid. We all knew where we were going and what equipment when the sheet got to us. By 8:30am it was finished. We even bid aircraft training start dates. The class before and after me did the same. Not sure but things might have changed since your class. We could have been an anomaly as well.

You have to watch that STAT CODE closely and make sure you aren't bidding E190 F/O instead of capt!

The 75/76 capt went pretty junior(only about 28 years) on the last bid. I bet some guys forgot they had it in there.