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Old 06-20-2014 | 06:07 PM
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Default AA Pilots: Do You Know What Your Reps Are...

We all know there is a lot of pre-merger posturing. Well, the merger has already happened.

We have two options at this juncture:

1) Fight each other for seniority, union majorities and perceived superiorities. Play into legacy US management playbook.

...or

2) bind together, respect the other pilot group and move on together. and then become the world's largest pilot group with the most leverage and clout.

What path are the APA reps taking?
-Trying to take advantage of the SLI protocol agreement talks
-Trying to leave a loophole where APA can change SLI protocol talks whenever they want after the union vote
-Thinking that the US East pilot group will roll over and be taken advantage of again
-Thinking the AA West pilots will work with them
-Thinking that the former US management will work with them to make them happen (divide conquer strategy)


I will say it once and everyone needs to listen:

This pilot group can become the world's strongest. The world's largest. With the most leverage....but it will not happen if AA pilots think they can dictate the SLI process. USAPA is not being unreasonable. Tell your reps to honor a fair process where we are all on board, and this will not be drawn out in the courts. We can not compete with Delta if this is drawn out in courts.


Wilson, Roghair, are you listening? Let's make this merger happen and kick DL and UA's butt.
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Old 06-20-2014 | 06:22 PM
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Lol. This will take years to play out.
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Old 06-20-2014 | 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by A321
We all know there is a lot of pre-merger posturing. Well, the merger has already happened.

We have two options at this juncture:

1) Fight each other for seniority, union majorities and perceived superiorities. Play into legacy US management playbook.

...or

2) bind together, respect the other pilot group and move on together. and then become the world's largest pilot group with the most leverage and clout.

What path are the APA reps taking?
-Trying to take advantage of the SLI protocol agreement talks
-Trying to leave a loophole where APA can change SLI protocol talks whenever they want after the union vote
-Thinking that the US East pilot group will roll over and be taken advantage of again
-Thinking the AA West pilots will work with them
-Thinking that the former US management will work with them to make them happen (divide conquer strategy)


I will say it once and everyone needs to listen:

This pilot group can become the world's strongest. The world's largest. With the most leverage....but it will not happen if AA pilots think they can dictate the SLI process. USAPA is not being unreasonable. Tell your reps to honor a fair process where we are all on board, and this will not be drawn out in the courts. We can not compete with Delta if this is drawn out in courts.


Wilson, Roghair, are you listening? Let's make this merger happen and kick DL and UA's butt.
Good lord.
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Old 06-21-2014 | 06:56 AM
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"Hello....kettle....this is pot"......
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Old 06-21-2014 | 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
Lol. This will take years to play out.
^^^^^^^^
This... X3. This will take the courts years to sort out.
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Old 06-21-2014 | 10:08 AM
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Taking years to complete this merger is a sure fire way to end up back in bankruptcy and furlough more pilots.
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Old 06-21-2014 | 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Grinder10
Taking years to complete this merger is a sure fire way to end up back in bankruptcy and furlough more pilots.
Parker made money for years with fragmented, squabbling pilots, so this is right up his alley and the MOU allows for far more flexibility then he had before as well. APA is following the MOU that all including USAPA agreed to, USAPA is not. If the shareholders were to get wiped out in another bankruptcy as a result of USAPA's obstructionism and intransigence, I'd bet the USAPA officers would get sued into oblivion, including personal assets. Prolly spend their retirements out on street corners with cups in their hands.

It won't come to that though. Bumps and grinds for sure, but the days of known rogue labor unions destroying mega-corporations are gone. Patience and intestinal fortitude will result in the opportunity to look back and see this for what it was - a brief virus that ran its inevitable course into dormancy and extinction, AKA The USAPA Strain.
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Old 06-22-2014 | 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by A321
We all know there is a lot of pre-merger posturing. Well, the merger has already happened.

We have two options at this juncture:

1) Fight each other for seniority, union majorities and perceived superiorities. Play into legacy US management playbook.

...or

2) bind together, respect the other pilot group and move on together. and then become the world's largest pilot group with the most leverage and clout.

What path are the APA reps taking?
-Trying to take advantage of the SLI protocol agreement talks
-Trying to leave a loophole where APA can change SLI protocol talks whenever they want after the union vote
-Thinking that the US East pilot group will roll over and be taken advantage of again
-Thinking the AA West pilots will work with them
-Thinking that the former US management will work with them to make them happen (divide conquer strategy)


I will say it once and everyone needs to listen:

This pilot group can become the world's strongest. The world's largest. With the most leverage....but it will not happen if AA pilots think they can dictate the SLI process. USAPA is not being unreasonable. Tell your reps to honor a fair process where we are all on board, and this will not be drawn out in the courts. We can not compete with Delta if this is drawn out in courts.


Wilson, Roghair, are you listening? Let's make this merger happen and kick DL and UA's butt.
Do you really not see the absolute hypocrisy in what you just said, considering what USAPA has done and tried to do to the west? Wow.
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Old 06-22-2014 | 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 70Espada
Do you really not see the absolute hypocrisy in what you just said, considering what USAPA has done and tried to do to the west? Wow.
The answer to that is an honest and sobering "no", but its more then just the West. It also has nothing to do with what APA is doing or has done in the past (which hasn't been admirable in and of itself). It's about an entity with a consistent history of clinging to a hopelessly rigid self-interested philosophy even at the peril of their own membership and one which has repeatedly and blatantly reneged on its past (and present) agreements. This rock-solid consistency can only be expected to continue.

Entities like that simply cannot expect any type of partnership expectations as no one in their right mind would place trust in it. That's why the MOU was crafted the way it was. Parker and APA simply underestimated the zeal that USAPA would take to tip over the apple cart, again once they obtained the primary benefit from plucking the apple cart FIRST. That's why it's also my opinion that Parker and APA should not expend any more energy in trying to get the zebra to change its stripes. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if APA's counter-proposal was simply to show a judge they were willing to be reasonable while still respecting the MOU. I also find it interesting APA terms USAPA's proposal demands to be "suggestions".

Hopefully, the judge considering the injunction will take USAPA's entire history into account as well as the clear contractual provisions of the MOU to which USAPA was a willing signatory and also recognize what can only appear to be duplicity in making these demands AFTER they agreed to the MOU. Ultimately, I think the East will have its own Integration reps and so will the West (which USAPA DOES NOT want), but USAPA (as an entity) simply MUST go, hopefully agreeably, but forced out if necessary. As long as it exists, this merger will remain dysfunctional and efforts at progress counter-productive.
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Old 06-22-2014 | 07:57 AM
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Do you know why the Northwest / Delta merger went so well? We had people that kind of got shafted on the Northwest side of things, but that was related to the fact that Delta had hired so many more pilots in the early 2000's. In the end, everyone was not entirely thrilled when things were said and done, but thats the way it worked out....it was fair and equitable. Everyone gets along for the most part and it's water under the bridge.

Of course the US Air and America West cluster, most of us are familiar with. However, sometime people forget what American did to TWA. Yep .... from the perspective of union tactics, your representatives job was to get you the best deal available. They did exactly that and basically shafted the vast majority of the TWA pilots. Was it the best for the American pilots, absolutely. Was it the right thing to do? No...

If the APA thinks the "prenup power up" is going to streamline this merger with US Air, you are high.

In all of the US airline industry, I don't think a more appropriate marriage of entities exists. This is a match made in heaven, the most dysfunctional and self centered groups in our industry come together.
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