Route66 - don't tell us you're an AA pilot. You want credibility? Prove it.

It matters little who he is. What matters is that his interests are NOT that of the AA line pilots as a group. Understand that and it matters little what he attempts to convince anyone of here. He's brand new here and his timing and position are NOT random. Read his posts if you must, but my advice is to treat them like you were reading The Onion. :rolleyes:

A lot of what he is saying is based in reality. In a prior life I was airline management and i've watched two different unions deal with this management team. We could do a lot worse for who we have runing the company, but.......... they are for the most number crunchers (I used to be one). They may admire the Herbs of the world, but they stuggle to put a value on happy employees. Shafeholders and customers come first. Not happy about that view, but it is what it is.

Ok, but let's look where we are and where we'll likely go......

Think Gettysburg, they already have the high ground. Don't get me wrong, i'd like to tell them to stick that proposal where the sun don't shine, especially quality of life issues. It just wouldn't be productive and we will just get less.
At this point i'm not totally sure what the best course of action is.

Does any other airways guy get error messages when trying to get onto C and R?

Parker had never paid employees a "happiness premium." Quite the opposite. He has always had a labor cost advantage and has never provided a premium class product. He is the epitome of "cheap". His roots are "America West"... You can take a person out of America West but you can never take the America West out of the person.

...presently, what do we have from Parker ?

Well, aside that without doubt, we all should now conclude he was never sincere about resetting labor relations at AA, is not interested in "building trust" and for all intents and purposes was playing us like chumps by A. hiring one of the most well known anti-union individuals (some would call a "union buster") and B., strung us along with a several month delay claiming a "comprehensive proposal" to address APA's opener was coming and instead delivering what could have been composed in a hour, i.e., deliberately stalling. What have we gotten ?

Well, an offer of Delta rates with a feeble bump supposedly to offset the lack of profit-sharing that doesn't even come close to meeting that goal, at least in comparison to Delta pilots. BUT WAIT !!!

Those Delta rates would be essentially negated by a 40% tax on health care, thus making that for all intents and purposes a "cost neutral" pay proposal and WAAAAAY BEHIND Delta. For that (as there is essentially nothing else of value in response to APA's initial offer), we give them the scope concessions they wanted not just in a different form, but that could result in HUGE ASM transfers resulting in an even worse scenario of stagnation for those junior should those provisions be maximized.

I see no REAL pay increases, no profit-sharing and a gutting of scope. Is this an honest man TRULY looking to re-instill trust in a previously broken employee relations model ?

Definitely not.

How about arbitration ?

Well, at least it would be a known quantity. The MOU provides for substantial pay increases in 2016 although they will not meet Delta's. Scope is off the table and any alterations must be cost neutral, so in essence, massive health care taxes can't water down pay rates. Quite frankly, if the choice is between what's out there now and arbitration, arbitration is the better deal.

What does Parker get with arbitration ?

Well, yes.........he gets much cheaper labor then Delta and in consideration that he has said any arbitration result would be HIS failure, I suppose bragging rights on how HE failed. IF we do end up in arbitration, CLEARLY this was an orchestrated tactic and Parker had no intention of living up to his promises and claims and it will NOT be the pilots fault for taking what actually would be better deal in arbitration then a worse offer outside of it. BUT WAIT !!!

Employees (not just pilots) for better or worse will likely get something else for the cost of arbitration (AKA "Parker's failure") and that's the relief from going above and beyond to make the New AA any different from the old AA and that IS a necessary component of not just LONG-TERM success, but competitive superiority. Like it or not, that will ultimately likely end up the deal for Parker. Manipulating and fleecing employees like the past management gets him the old AA, just larger with pretty new paint on the sides. Treat them with respect and HONESTY and compensate competitively and get a NEW AA that can compete with Delta, so ultimately I think an arbitration bill will come due for Parker, it will just take time. If his attitude changes then, it will likely fall on disinterested, deaf ears.

The real message isn't really about the economics, it's the message that PARKER isn't honest and that can neither be bought nor ignored. It doesn't matter what Parker does now as he has already sent that message and he cannot take it back. The message is that this is HIS airline and not ours and in effect, we are just "renters" here and not owners. It's a fact renters rarely give a damn about where they happen to be renting at any given point, nor how long they've existed in that dwelling and despite the larger size and new paint on the walls, I don't see the tens of thousands of front-line pilots and flight attendants giving much of a damn about how attractive the house is, how fast it dilapidates in the future or what others think of it. At least now, there's no doubt about what and who Parker is, so at least we know what lies ahead and deal or not, I see Parker and Kirby no different then Arpey and Horton. Personally, I'd prefer arbitration at this point and emotionally disconnect from these characters just as I did from Arpey and Horton. I think it's always better to exist in a grounded reality even if less satisfying, then a pathetic fantasy and Parker is a known quantity now.

Less ?

I vehemently disagree. I think you should look at the smoke and mirrors of the initial proposal and compare what we have now to INCUDE the 2016 increases, now insurance costs to offset those pay increases and no degradation of scope. I'd argue that the present proposal is more "cost-neutral" for them (and thus worse for us) then an arbitrated JCBA result.

Parkers drunk on big profits right now and in his intoxication may be failing to see the potential hangover of this tack years down the road. Delta understands positive and collaborative labor relations and Southwest has for years and look where they've been and are going. AA has failed miserably in that component for decades and look where they've been. Parker came in and talked the talk, but now we see that's all it was..........more talk.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten. Parker may very well end up getting what Arpey and Horton had in the long run even if he didn't plan on it. Temporary intoxications have a tendency to do that to people. ;)

Since management wants to trade 50 seaters for 70 seaters, why not allow them to have no net gain of seats? Fine, you get X amount of 70 seaters but you must trade in more 50 seaters? I know the company doesn't like the 50 seaters so use the desire of management to get 70 seaters as a bargaining chip for us to get industry leading pay and work rules?

Again trade seat for seat , NOT airplane for airplane and we don't lose any seats to scope. If they don't wanna play, then they won't get any airframe changes they need with us going to arbitration.. Thoughts?