What is being lost in the JCBA pales in comparison to what was lost when signing the MOU/MTA.

So, two wrongs make a right ?

Fail.

Try to keep it in perspective was my point.

Perspective?

They have $10B in profits the first two years of a merger that Parker said was only supposed to net $1B a year.

He didn't tell us the truth on the numbers when we were negotiating the MOU, you know he isn't telling us the truth on the numbers now.

They need to come clean, and the only way that happens is if we vote to reject their concession demands.

Yeah, because Parker knew oil was going to fall 50% in 6 months.

It's all managements fault for not letting us in on their magic 8 ball predictions.

It's guys like you whom will never be satisfied, no matter what.

I don't think the $1 bil was profit. It was benefits. Airways was making close to $1 bil a year by themselves.

EDIT:
Here it is, from 2 years ago. $1 billion in combined benefits. FYI benefits are not the same as profits.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/american...ce-11b-merger/

And it's the the US Airways pilots fault that L-US Airways has been through 2 bankruptcy's that gutted their contract and robbed their pension?

And it's the American Airlines Pilots fault that they went through a sham bankruptcy to gut their contract and pave the way for merger?

And now the pilot's have the arrogance to attempt to maintain what is left of the Contract, in a time of unprecedented profits, at a time where the industry after a failed de-regulation has returned to oligopoly, by saying 'No' to the Company's generosity?

The questions are rhetorical, don't bother answering.

But I do have an actual question;

Are you freelancing or did they hire you? If you're still freelancing, here's the website where you can submit your resume:

F&H Solutions Group

And cost neutral arbitration. ..

I'm glad you brought up oil. The lower cost of oil doesn't even begin to explain the historic Billions in profit... but it does explain why American Airlines is supposed to make at least an extra $1.3B over and above Delta and United (because DAL and UAL hedged fuel). American positioned to save more than rival airlines on jet fuel in 2015 - MarketWatch

Nevertheless, do you really care how DUI was ably to amass $10Billion in profits in just two years? I don't.

I think its great. Now we know he can afford to pay us like he promised to!

Don't forget to keep perspective.... Parker has $10Billion, and a promise to keep... :cool:

I'm confused.

I see nothing about scope.

Am I plain missing it-it is that one of the blank sections?

Does your mother know you turned out this way?

Could somebody shed some light into the A321NEO LR issue? Is it true that it WILL have transatlantic range? If it does, the 321 group 3 pay will become the most important issue for me!

It is specifically intended to replace the 757-200W (w for winglets), being capable of operating all the routes that the 757-200W currently operates on. So yes, it is true that it will easily have transatlantic range. And deep South America range also. And Hawaii.

757-200W range is 3,850nm. A321neo-LR range 4,000nm, but 4,100nm in a two-class configuration with 164 seats.

First deliveries in 2019. Industry news reports that American Airlines has specific interest in the type, particularly as replacement for the 757.

Texas,
So in your world there would be no problem in the company furloughing when things slow down. Why not just have seasonal furloughs that way the company can save on pilot costs during the winter when less demand.
You know, laid off is laid off. Glad it never happened to you to be furloughed while your company bought and outsourced as many rj's as they could to replace you for a 1/4 of the cost.
This last paragraph even makes me question if you are even truly a seniority list pilot?
Best of luck.....
LUV

The 321 doesn't have the performance the mighty 75 does for many SA terrain ops, so those will be taken over by 319's. Within 5-7 years AA will likely be a 5 aircraft fleet with 1 group I, 2 group II (A319/321- B738) and 2 group IV (777/787). The small number of larger buses presently in use on the U side will likely be retired or leased elsewhere.

The majority of future AA pilots will be Group II pilots.

If the runway is long enough and it's within 1000' of sea level, the 321neoLR will be doing it. So, for sure Hawaii and most of western Europe. Agree on the SA terrain challenged areas. Any 321 will need a lot of level ground or ocean around the runway to crawl it's way to a safe altitude even with 2 engines pushing.

I read my post and I thought that's what I said, i.e., the 321 is no good for that. Frequency and seasonal loads will likely dictate equipment choices on many of the other routes that are viable with either bus or the 737. The E-195's range and performance will mean our Group 1 pilots will be seeing there share of northern SA, CA and Caribbean destinations too. Copa flys their E-190's all over the place down there and the E-195 will be better.

Came across some of my old bid sheets from Eagle from back in 2002 along with a copy of our CBA. They're better then my present AA sheets. :( If you put the pay and 401(k) aside (the "hard dollar" items), the soft items now here at AA after both the BK concessions and now the ones we are about to hand over essentially for free, AA is now Eagle, just with larger aircraft.

Who'd have thought that possible 13 years ago ?

Excellent point on the E195. More people should be plugging Group 1 pay rates in to their calculators before they vote on the Company's demands.

Yes mostly Group II (if they don't buy a boat load of E190s) and no Groupp III (but we will still fly those routes with the 321NEO).

Who thought that? Jerry Glass and DUI.

The 330s are bought and paid for and not going anywhere. Some are less than a year old.

The 350s are going to end up being 777 replacements. Those airplanes are coming.

Management already tried Airbuses down in some LA airports and they didn't work out. I would expect at least some 75's to stick around for the time being.

Having so many fleet types makes me sick personally.

MD80
E190
B737
B757/767
B777
B787
A319/320/321
A330
A350

Did I miss any?!?

The list needs to be narrowed down significantly to streamline our operations. I'd like to see an all Airbus fleet personally with some E190's for smaller markets.

That won't happen because they ordered a metric boat load of 737's and not nearly enough A330/A350's to cover the wide body flying. And we still need the 319/321 to operate in markets where you can't fill a 150 seat 737 or want the efficiency of a 187 seat 321.

The Group III pay issue, on the surface, seems to be a very bad deal. And in some ways it is. But let's take a step back and look at the whole picture.

Currently, international flying is done by the B777, A330, B767 and B757. Most of the long-range stuff is Group IV only, with a few 767 routes thrown in there. That international fleet is about to get up-ended as the B767 and many of the B757s retire. Some of the 757 fleet will remain in service for a while longer.

The company has B787 and A350 aircraft on order (and a handful of B777s on order). While a few of these will replace some of the older B777s, others will be replacing the 767 fleet. As the 757 fleet begins to pare down, the A321neoLR will likely replace it on the routes.

So that leaves us with the 767 and 757 positions moving to Group IV and Group II. There's a strong argument that the A321 should be a Group III aircraft, and I think pretty much everyone agrees with this. The problem is, the company has no interest in changing it, and there's really no mechanism in place right now to change it.

So where does that leave us? Voting yes or no will NOT alter the course of the fleet evolution. We WILL wind up with mostly Group IV and Group II aircraft and only a handful of Group III aircraft. If you vote no, you'll wind up with the MTA rates and Group III jobs will still gradually migrate to Groups IV and II. Looking at the TA pay, a Group II FO will make about the same as what a Group III FO would make under the MTA. And even if Delta gets better than what most are expecting (around 5-10% raise), Group III FO rates would only be marginally better than Group II FO rates (by a couple bucks per hour). Plus, some of those Group III positions will wind up being Group IV when it's all said and done. So while it's not ideal and not what it should be, it's not the end of the world either.

Voting no will not stop the A321 from taking over some of the 757 routes. Voting no will not make the economic situation better. Voting no will not somehow magically force the company make the A321 a Group III airplane.

I don't know when APA sorted out which aircraft would be in what group, but I think it was a huge mistake to arbitrarily throw the A321 into Group II just because it belonged to the A320 family. But that's all water under the bridge, and honestly at this point we're not going to see that change anytime before 2019/2020.

Hey, good point. The merger is already paying off at $10 Billion the first two years.. $10,000,000,000.00..

So Parker can afford to keep all his promises now!!