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-   -   Non ETOPS to HNL (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/90400-non-etops-hnl.html)

Frip 09-04-2015 12:47 PM

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450knotOffice 09-04-2015 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by 450knotOffice (Post 1964021)
It's true. However, just to be clear, the aircraft was an ETOPS equipped jet, it simply had not been signed off as such, so therefore was not legal to use for ETOPS.

Turns out I was wrong. It was a non ETOPS jet.

flyinawa 09-05-2015 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by 450knotOffice (Post 1964166)
Turns out I was wrong. It was a non ETOPS jet.

Ruh-row.....

450knotOffice 09-05-2015 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by flyinawa (Post 1964850)
Ruh-row.....

Yup. BUT.
Dispatch chose the airplane - an S model, as opposed to an H model, which the CA had never seen and which has a cockpit that is essentially identical except for some very minor visual differences pertaining to cargo fire extinguishing. Dispatch prepared the flight plan for that bird. Maintenance performed an ETOPS PDC on it, and signed it off as such in the logbook.
The captain's International IOE was done in a 319 in the Central America/Caribbean division which makes him "legal" to fly to HA, but probably didn't really prepare him adequately for ETOPS.
Plus, there is NOTHING in our manuals that says there should be ETOPS stenciled on the jet behind the nose wheel, nor that there should be an ETOPS sticker on the cover of the logbook.
Now, I realize that the guys on the 767 and 777 probably already know to look for these clues, but obviously it's either specifically in their Volume 1 operating manuals, or it's just something the guys pass down to each other.
On the Airbus fleet, not a word anywhere in the manuals to look for those two items.
Guess what, we just got an email from the company telling us to look for those items.

I feel bad for the crew, but they did everything they were told to do. They checked off every box.

Sliceback 09-05-2015 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by 450knotOffice (Post 1964864)

I feel bad for the crew, but they did everything they were told to do. They checked off every box.


+1


filler...

PurpleTurtle 09-05-2015 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by 450knotOffice (Post 1964021)
It's true. However, just to be clear, the aircraft was an ETOPS equipped jet, it simply had not been signed off as such, so therefore was not legal to use for ETOPS.

These facts are not accurate, at least not with internal info I am aware of. I'll not comment on the OP question, as it is outside of my purview.

450knotOffice 09-05-2015 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle (Post 1964996)
These facts are not accurate, at least not with internal info I am aware of. I'll not comment on the OP question, as it is outside of my purview.

You are correct. I quoted and corrected myself the day before yesterday.

BizPilot 09-06-2015 03:15 AM


Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 1964002)
A good question might be how can you tell the difference between an ETOPS and non-ETOPS jet?

Second question - when would you first figure that out typical line ops?

Saw a picture of a cockpit panel recently and it had a prominent placard stating "ETOPS 180". I would assume that meant they had 180 minutes of ETOPS.

Sliceback 09-06-2015 05:52 AM

^^^ Was that on an AA 321 ETOPS jet?

Since they'd never flown an ETOPS jet would they miss it since they'd never seen the placard before?

If you've seen it before and it's missing that's one thing. If you havn't seen it, havn't told about it, or required to check it, why would you miss it?

450knotOffice 09-06-2015 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by BizPilot (Post 1965068)
Saw a picture of a cockpit panel recently and it had a prominent placard stating "ETOPS 180". I would assume that meant they had 180 minutes of ETOPS.

There are no ETOPS 180 placards mounted anywhere in the flight deck of our ETOPS jets. I'm thinking maybe you saw a picture of the AML cover with a big ETOPS sticker on it.


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