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eaglefly 03-09-2016 03:01 PM


Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 2085648)
Im guessing the thought process is to never pick up open time in hope that premium becomes available?

I think several thought processes exist all leading to the belief its a foundation of unity.


Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 2085648)
I usually fly my but off and finish the month halfway through and enjoy the second half off. Is that frowned upon? I like big chunks of days off. I rarely fly any trip from my awarded line.

I'm not throwing a judgment stone as I too "modify" my assigned schedule for various personal reasons dropping (not very often :(), trading and picking-up trips. I think the most criticism is of pilots picking up straight time to maximum limits. It sure helps as it means we need less pilots. Like I said, it's about cats that will never be herded and so, it's another component of a predictable future.

Saabs 03-09-2016 04:05 PM

Isn't the whole point of imax to limit that and create more pilot jobs?

eaglefly 03-09-2016 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 2085708)
Isn't the whole point of imax to limit that and create more pilot jobs?

In theory, but MMAX limits of 120 to 160 hours leave plenty of room to serve the long-term interests of others then pilots. In so many ways, we are our own worst enemy.

cactusmike 03-15-2016 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 2085708)
Isn't the whole point of imax to limit that and create more pilot jobs?


I have always thought that was the dumbest argument ever. Why do you want to pad the pilot roster? There are lifestyle pilots who want to drop down and there are guys that want to max out. Some months the roles reverse. It's not your job to man the airline. The company sets that limit based on block hours and crew manning requirements.

I can tell you from experience that the staffing formula does not rely on pilots picking up open time. That is a scheduling function that usually is set by negotiation. In our case it was 1% each month per seat and catagory.

There is a budget that is set for labor, like it or not. When you go in to negotiations you have an advantage when you demonstrate that you have a productive pilot group that can make a business case for more money. We don't want to see more money going to more people we want more money going to the individual pilot. Negotiations, especially when it comes down to mediation, are all about making the best business case.

The only time you should ever see a ban on picking up time is during the final close out stages of negotiations. That is the time when the company needs to see labor resolve. It sends a message that the pilot group is unified and usually leads to a quicker closeout of negotiations, unless you get idiots in the union overriding the negotiators and trying to get more items inserted in the contract at the end. But that would never happen here, right?

Route66 03-16-2016 04:15 AM


Originally Posted by cactusmike (Post 2089756)
i have always thought that was the dumbest argument ever. Why do you want to pad the pilot roster? There are lifestyle pilots who want to drop down and there are guys that want to max out. Some months the roles reverse. It's not your job to man the airline. The company sets that limit based on block hours and crew manning requirements.

I can tell you from experience that the staffing formula does not rely on pilots picking up open time. That is a scheduling function that usually is set by negotiation. In our case it was 1% each month per seat and catagory.

There is a budget that is set for labor, like it or not. When you go in to negotiations you have an advantage when you demonstrate that you have a productive pilot group that can make a business case for more money. We don't want to see more money going to more people we want more money going to the individual pilot. Negotiations, especially when it comes down to mediation, are all about making the best business case.

The only time you should ever see a ban on picking up time is during the final close out stages of negotiations. That is the time when the company needs to see labor resolve. It sends a message that the pilot group is unified and usually leads to a quicker closeout of negotiations, unless you get idiots in the union overriding the negotiators and trying to get more items inserted in the contract at the end. But that would never happen here, right?

you are right! Show me the money!!

vroll1800 03-17-2016 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by cactusmike (Post 2089756)
I have always thought that was the dumbest argument ever. Why do you want to pad the pilot roster? <<<Snip>>>>>> We don't want to see more money going to more people we want more money going to the individual pilot. ?

Ahhh, a play for the ME ME ME contingent. More money for the individual pilot= More money for less people. An OK concept so long as company (and by extension, pilot group) is growing and expanding.

During furloughs,(or even stagnant times.) not so good. In addition to furloughed crewmembers, many more are involuntarily downgraded, taking double digit pay cuts. As one union rep told me many years ago: "Number One can take a 5- 10% cut a lot better than someone taking a 100% cut. UPS pilot group has a (well deserved) rep for being a very unified pilot group, evidenced by the way they acted when 109 pilots were furloughed.

Al Czervik 03-17-2016 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 2085743)
In theory, but MMAX limits of 120 to 160 hours leave plenty of room to serve the long-term interests of others then pilots. In so many ways, we are our own worst enemy.

So a pilot can straight pick up to 120-160 credit for the month?


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