The APA has always been about jobs not money. DAL has been about $$ and not jobs. The APA viewpoint actually was more union-like than their competitors, but they did make things too complicated in their quest. IMO.

Stay healthy, take care of your family and and when 2020 rolls around Kirby will offer you more in pay and less in everything else and you'll take it or go somewhere else.

I'm for that. Ill take a 10% increase in 777 Captain pay with less rigs and benefits then. Its better than being here over thirty years jerking the gear for a 5 year pilot.

Why should we have to give something up to get the company to implement an already agreed to contract item? That would be paying for it twice: once in negotiations and once in implementation.

Oh, I'll take it and admit it ! I'm under no illusions. Whether we admit it or not, I think we're all essentially independent contractors now as clearly "Associationism" in the Airline Pilot profession (ALPA and APA, especially) has proven a complete and total failure.

Godspeed to those though that still try and aim for the moon, I just think we're on an Apollo 13 mission now, where getting to the finish line (which is now where the starting point was) intact is the only achievable goal left. :cool:

But, if you stay, I promise to give you your share of landings. :o But in all seriousness, if the SLI doesn't go your way, you got to do what's right for you.

In an unprecedented new low, AA management is exploiting an East 1998 contract loophole (even though the new JCBA has been in place for a year) to not pay pilots whose entire pairings have been cancelled from winter storm Jonas. ALL AA pilots should all be fully implemented under this JCBA by now.

Hundreds of pilots are having out on thousands of dollars STOLEN from them while the corporation makes billions.

See below for the APA update on this ridiculousness.

Sidenote: do not turn this thread into east vs west. This is a pilot issue and we should all be OUTRAGED regardless of which base this has happened to.

Fellow pilots,

As you can imagine, our phones and emails have been inundated with stories of utter chaos. Hotel issues, absolute inability to contact scheduling, unprecedented rudeness by schedulers and when you do finally speak with them, a total lack of decorum and professionalism, not to mention a complete disregard for your contract (pick one). This is all brought to you by J.C. Gulbranson (managing director of crew scheduling) and the people who allow individuals like this to abuse the crews and passengers of the world’s largest airline with their myopic view of how to run a business. Those people being Messrs Parker and Kirby. The worst part is that our passengers are paying the price for this management’s arrogance. They have no shame!

As our many updates have pointed out, any trip that was pre-cancelled on the LUS side is not being paid, unless you fly any portion of your original trip pairing, and ONLY your original trip pairing. You are NOT obligated to fly ANYTHING else unless you are rescheduled AFTER reporting. The Company’s view per their CBS message is you will not receive pay protection, period.

Once you have been on duty (8) hours past your original trip footprint, you are under NO obligation to do anything except go HOME. You can do this offline, bus, J/S, car, on the back of a yak, any way that you can find. YOU DO NOT need to advise scheduling, besides, they probably won’t answer the phone.

DO NOT accept an assignment via a voicemail message.

As this inept management attempts to rebuild the airline via whatever means possible, threats, intimidation, premium pay, remember this, they created this animosity. There are pilots on the LUS side (only) not getting paid for their cancelled trips. Think long and hard about helping this management by taking the money that they STOLE from your fellow pilots, this could be you the next time.

You are only required to do your contractual obligations; volunteering and picking up premium trips are NOT obligations. Also, for those pilots who were stranded out for extra days beyond their scheduled pairing, you are now likely projected to exceed the monthly pay cap due to the additional pay hours. If this is the case, YOU MUST ADJUST YOUR PROJECTION BELOW THE CAP.

If you are threatened by a Chief Pilot to perform flying in violation of your working agreement, we need to know ASAP with as many details as possible.

The events of this week will no doubt create hundreds of claims that will result in grievances. Keep good records and send as much detail as you can to [union email].



Get with it American Management. What is WRONG WITH YOU?

No class.

This is nothing new with Doug Parker. Most of the times that I have posted here have been to say the same thing. Think about just how little this would cost AA. Parker will never change. Doug Parker has become the CEO of the largest airline in the World. I believe that he could have done this without screwing his employees. I believe that he is smart enough to know how to stay on top, without kicking labor every single chance that he gets- which he does, without exception. Oil prices are low; the wolf is, at least for now, no longer at the door. So why does he still do these things? Just think about the mentality of someone who would refuse to pay his pilots because of a snow storm. Every time he needs anything just remember, this man, in a time when things could not be better for his bottom line, when given the opportunity, chose to make his pilots shoulder the burden of a blizzard.

We weren't giving anything up, the company wanted us to transition to the LAA system of open time and the East guys didn't want to budge off their two day bid sheet system which has been in place on the East side. I don't believe prior to this the East even had any sort of sequence protection(!), and they were at least able to secure some form of it.

Let me explain it to you all because it JUST HAPPENED TO ME SUNDAY:

I was to DH to BUF and fly it back to CLT. We were waiting for ONE FLIGHT ATTENDANT after two hours trying to get through to scheduling about who was coming. The flight was cancelled shortly before the flight attendant got there and when she did the Captain got the flight reinstated to he wouldn't have to scramble to get time back in his line. His explanation was that he hated to leave passengers in the terminal trying to get home and I empathize with that but I explained that IT WAS NOT HIS JOB TO SCHEDULE THE FLIGHTS AND FEEL THE OBLIGATION TO DO MORE THAN HIS JOB DESCRIPTION REQUIRED.

He made MY point, however, that no matter HOW much you feel the union is your friend the REALITY is that the PILOTS WILL DO THE JOB TO GET PAID. Now, I know this guy well and he is a very nice guy and means well but if the union DOESNT negotiate a contract that helps you then you might as well HELP THE COMPANY AND GET PAID!!!!

This guy supports the union and he still went above and beyond his job the help his bottom line. So we'll see what happens when this Company throws you a few "cookies" at that time and the unity disappears. I'M LOVING IT watching this pilot group twist in the wind like a weather vane on a string in a tornado.

I am not at all sure what your point is Route66. ("He made MY point, however, that no matter HOW much you feel the union is your friend the REALITY is that the PILOTS WILL DO THE JOB TO GET PAID.")
I have no idea what the motives of this pilot were, but would have to take him at his word. Furthermore, two things can be true at the same time, so again, if he says that he is concerned about passengers that's good enough.
When you say " I'M LOVING IT watching this pilot group twist in the wind like a weather vane on a string in a tornado" are you not part of this pilot group? And why would you feel that way, under any circumstance ? In the future I will remember to symbolically copy paste " I'M LOVING IT watching this pilot group twist in the wind like a weather vane on a string in a tornado" after everything that you post.

That is giving something up. Maybe it is better, but if it's like most changes we've implemented, I doubt it. The plan is to go to a whole new scheduling system and until then we stay on our own.

That's like saying "We'll do what we've already agreed to if you just give up that pesky sap."