Flexjet or Atlas Air?
 

Hi guys, I currently have the option of going to Atlas Air or Flexjet, I know what’s been said about Atlas, but the 747 is very attractive for me on the other hand Flexjet have very attractive contract but I’ve never flown corporate which is very appealing to me as well except the Phenom 300 :rolleyes:
I’m rated on the A320, TT 15000, PIC 5000 TRI & TRE.
I appreciate you're comment’s

Atlas or Flexjet?
 

Hi guys, I currently have the option of going to Atlas Air or Flexjet, I know what’s been said about Atlas, but the 747 is very attractive for me on the other hand Flexjet have very attractive contract but I’ve never flown corporate which is very appealing to me as well except the Phenom 300 :rolleyes:
I’m rated on the A320, TT 15000, PIC 5000 TRI & TRE.
I appreciate you're comment’s

What's so attractive about the 747? Unless you have SJS.

Pick 121 over 135 with your hours.

I think one thread is enough.
Besides this is “low time”

I would agree to pick 121 over 135, but have you explored other option besides Atlas? I believe JetBlue and Spirit are both hiring, and they offer significantly more in overall compensation than Atlas does.

If you want the opportunity flying around the world, Atlas is a good choice if offered the job. The 747 ain’t bad either ;)

Thanks guys, yeah that is a very good advice.
With JB and Spirit I’m still waiting, but I need to start somewhere here while I wait.

The 747 is attractive... then the gear comes up. You look down at the FMC and realize you have 15 hours to go, you then take a look at your PCD, crap a schedule change during taxi out. After my 15 hour flight, I’ve got min rest of 10 hour, then a 15 hour flight back to CVG, wait- then another 10 min rest, to fly another 15 hours back to Korea... then it hits you- I’ve got 17 days of this, oh gosh- I hope they don’t extend me into my X days, that will be a 21 day trip... when will
I sleep, when will I eat... a few weeks later you’re still working, then you get a $1700 paycheck for all your hard work-

Then it really sets in- I’ve moved millions of dollars of freight, flying 100m dollar airplane, and they gave me $1700 bucks.

You’re welcome to come see for yourself - but don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Kalitta or Omni have new and better contracts and would satisfy your wanderlust/big airplane needs. I would think both are attainable with your quals. Between the two though Atlas would be a total gamble I’d take the bird in hand with Flexjet.

This is the best summary of “What it’s like at Atlas” for me. I read all the time on here about min rest and such but never in a perspective like this. NO THANK YOU!


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Man, if your doing 14-15 hour flight 10 hour rest then Repeat for 17 days you must be making bank. That’s over 230 hours of credit. Is that even legal?

Plus if ur doing 30 hr round trip that should be one trip a week unless you're regulated under a different set of rules...

Hmmmmm I think perhaps the poster either lies a lot or is on drugs. Rest rules would never permit that.

Didn’t say you have to be operating the flight. You can always be riding the Lindsay Express around the world.

It is fascinating that people come here to find out information, which they are getting from actual Atlas pilots, and then think we are lying to them.

What rest rules were violated for a 4 man crew? You can do a lot of fling when paired this way. But wait, don't worry, as soon as you get close to breaking guarantee, the Lindsay optimizer will make you international reserve, and you can kiss that 90 hour paycheck goodbye!

How many of you have flown east and west across the dateline with 12-16 hours of rest 5 or 6 times in just a few weeks? We do this at Atlas routinely.

If you want to come to Atlas, then welcome aboard. Just don't say we didn't warn you. A contract could still be several years away!

Some of us like it here, myself included, but don't delude yourself.

Don't forget to factor in the majority of your time as a 747 FO will be as a relief pilot or galley wench. You'll be lucky to get one, maybe two takeoffs/landings per month.

So true!

Atlas is not a beginners airline. Your flying skills will not get better here or at any long haul outfit for that matter. You have to have reached a point in your flying career where you can fly "good enough" to take care of business when things go wrong and for your simulator check rides. This is the nature of this type of flying.

The days of multiple destinations and lots of hand flying are over when you come here. That is not a bad thing if you are prepared for it, but you will be a captain here one day, and you better have your act together.

This would be one of the best jobs in aviation if we only had a fair contract.

Think about this. You just flew a 10 hour leg from PAE to NGO which is about a 13 hour duty day give or take. Then, while enroute, you get a schedule change that says you will commercial from NGO to PVG 2.5 hours after arrival. Yes, you now have an almost 20 hour duty day that is legal and contractual. But don't worry, at least you are in business class on China Eastern!

AMEN- Thanks man.

I had a day recently. Operate PSM-HMM. at this point my duty day is around 11 hours. But....
Limo- HNN to Frankfurt ( not done yet )
Commercial to Stockholm

An easy 11 hour day turned into a 21 hour duty ( all legal )

Followed by min rest back to BWI.

Many many years ago, one could see multi day layovers, decent flying.

We are still doing the same flying, unfortunately we are so incredibly thin with crews, and last minute fatigue and sick calls, the days of spending 3 days in Hawaii or Hong Kong are long gone.

Min rest, an back to work.

At what point will you call fatigued? Are you a professional airman? Are you whining about duty while making max pay? Are you afraid of the Chief Pilot?

Myself? If it was legal AND I FELT RESTED, I would do the trip. If not, no-go. I empathize with the pilot group, but, to suggest that the scheduling is unsafe and that, with all of the union support behind flying safe, a pilot flies fatigued, ( a week of this would fatigue anyone), severely undermines your credibility. There is no need to embellish, as things are already quite unacceptable.

I’ve been around the block enough, to know when to pull the plug.

Go tell a new hire ( on probation), that’s never flown anything bigger than a caravan to call “your buddy” in Miami that he or she is FTG. It’s not going to happen.

I'd take Flexjet over Atlas. Flexjet has a history of hosing its pilots (something about furloughing during the 2008 downturn and then making them apply and interview to come back as a new hire), but Atlas is currently applying the screws to theirs.

We just sent home a handful of pilots that didn’t pass training. Come on over try for yourself.

Should we have kept them? Forced them through when they didn’t make the cut? Or should people looking here seek employment somewhere where training departments look the other way and pass people who shouldn’t be on the line?

I don't see where that was insinuated.

Atlas does have its moments. There are good months and bad months, granted I average more on the good side. Overall, if you are looking for the UPS/FedEx side go Kalitta (Atlas can be a good trampoline) and for the pax side do the Flex thang. Granted I have friends who ended up at Delta, American, United from here so it’s a fair shake of getting this type of experience and moving on relatively soon. If you have the PIC time that’s the key to not getting stuck in the mud as some call it. (Not required, just easier)

Careful though, many who start the Cargo Dawg Life and have some sense of adventure in them tend to lean our direction with ties off and no hats. I prefer long haul, hub turns or more than 2 legs not so much, it’s all how your geared. If it’s common home life you seek, this ain’t it and this is the life we have chosen. Adventure doesn’t pay the bills in our world, but there are bottom line bills and then there are bills. Overall, compensation will rule the day for most or at least be paid your worth so gain that experience at either source and live your dream.

Multiple legs, min rest, longer-legs back to back 24/7s. It gets rough at times, but I wouldn’t say everything is long gone. Several days off in Europe, Hong Kong, Dubai, Sydney, some stateside fun, but not all fun this year. Eyes of the beholder; can I complain about either too long layovers and not stacking flt hours or flying too much on min rest - I could definitely make the case. What I will say is if change is not in your parameters, I wouldn’t recommend it. It’s not for everyone.

For myself, I am getting older and one door between me and Lav is my limit.;)

Truth being told by Atlas Shrugged

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hah

That there is funnnaay!!

The work at Atlas is great, but the job sucks. 121 is more competitive than 135, but I think a lot of the career-building choices we make are more or less worthless. I'd go with what gives you the best money and quality of life. That won't be Atlas. Also, we might kill you.

And if Atlas doesn’t kill you, ATC in various parts of the world will give it their best effort.

https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-idiot/

Honestly, the Brits should’ve annexed that s hithole right after they took back the Falklands...

Wow.... comparing Atlas and Flex is like eating at a BBQ joint in Huntsville Alabama or having a kebab at Akmeds in Islamabad Pakistan. Both will put food in your belly but that’s about it. You couldn’t find a more stark comparison in aviation jobs imho.

I did fractional for 12 years at NetJets. It was OK, and I was glad to have to a job at the time, but I enjoy freight 100x more.


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Yep- and both are guaranteed to give you the runs- and have you sitting there saying.... Muck, I won’t do that again...

Glad we put this one to rest.

Darn it I just spit my coffee out laughing. Stop it!!!

That is too funny! Very true it’s a stark comparison.

This industry is more like a buffet of choices, but also a seven course meal of humility to get where you think you want to be.

And, if/when you think you have “arrived”, then some other shiney widget appears or some sh*tshow happens.

Top pay, Soft pay, Vac, DC % Ret, Scope, etc., contract stalled, buyouts, mergers, bankruptcy, economy tanks, kids headed to college, divorce.....

It’s called life is my guess, plan for the worst, pray for the best/decisions you can make and just take it day by day and do the best you can have fun and live stress free as possible.

Speaking of stress, gotta head to the loo cuz I’m in HKG and tried one too many unknowns - Doh!

You must be doing something wrong or just providing misinformation.

That's what many of the FO's I fly with are averaging. Between multi person crews and ongoing IOE they don't get to fly that often.

Even at K4 I'll average maybe 1 or 2 landings a month. Sometimes you'll be paired up with OE guy and get 0 landings for the month.

1-3 landings per month is EXACTLY correct. Unless you're being dishonest about if you need to leg or not (which some people are sadly). If you're an FO you get a TON of 3rd/4th seat time, especially considering the amount of OE going on.