Atlas/Southern crews relative value.
 

Did You Know?

For 2020, UPS is forecasting a total company revenue equal to $44,058 per each UPS employee.

FedEx is forecasting total company revenue equal to $282,518 for each FedEx employee.

Atlas Air is forecasting total company revenue equal to $864,232 for each Atlas Air employee.

Atlas will remain profitable with an industry standard pilot contract.

Delta signed an LOA with their pilots to prevent furloughs. 1788 pilots will now be placed on “No Fly Status” and collect 30 hours per month on B717 pay rates with their seniority, without ever having to fly an aircraft. Delta will also continue to provide full benefits, including the 16% Direct Contribution to its pilots.

The following is a comparison based on Year 1:
DAL CA will make $84,600 to NOT WORK and the company will contribute $13,536 their 401K.
SAI 737 CA will make $76,800 and will owe the company 17 DAYS per MONTH and will contribute $0 to their 401K.
An Atlas 767 CA will make $85,200 and will owe the company 17 DAYS per MONTH and will contribute $0 to their 401K.
An Atlas 747 CA will make $101,400 and will owe the company 17 DAYS per MONTH and will contribute $0 to their 401K.

If the CA wanted to put just as much in his 401K as the DAL CA, he would have to put in 13.3% of his OWN money in it, reducing his income to $87,864, or roughly the same as the Delta guy sitting at home ALL MONTH with the ability to find a second source of income.

Delta’s Leadership is burning $12-$14M per day while reinvesting in their employees; Atlas’ Leadership are lining their pockets with the profits WE are providing them and leaving us to pick up the scraps.

Did You Know?
At 35% of our hourly compensation (1:2.85), the pay structure at Atlas Air for deadheading is among the lowest of any pilot group in the industry.

Alaska, American, Delta, FedEx, JetBlue, Hawaiian, Southwest, Spirit, United, and UPS are a few of the many airlines that pay 100% of their pilot’s hourly compensation for deadheading.

Wow is this for real? 100k to CA a 74?

Hypothetical Year 1 scales across the board to keep comparing apples to apples. In reality, it would take 5+ years to upgrade to Atlas Capt. But that wasn't true at Delta a year ago. Today that 1st year Delta Capt could possibly be paid to stay home.

Very informative. Thank you, Zero.

Is it true that negotiations fell apart and there's a risk now that arbitration may be getting delayed yet again next year?

Seems to cherry pick stats....year1 UPS747 capt. $50k...doesnt give whole career picture tho

My opinion: There hasn't been much negotiating for quite some time. For example, we haven't TA'd an article since March 2020.

As for arbitration, let's not put the cart before the horse. An arbitrator hasn't even been selected yet. It's like saying you want to go to the prom in February, but you don't have a date yet.

The quote referencing UPS and FDX was per employee COMPANY WIDE. Not just flight crew.

Not trying to throw bricks here at the rest of the post, but I don't see how this particular figure can be correct. Even the lowest paid employees have to be making $25k-30k a year, plus some sort of benefits. Maybe 2/3rds that for some of the part time sort people, but they are union IIRC, so there's still some bennies getting paid (almost took a sort job in college but you had to pay a union initiation fee up front and I couldn't afford to go without pay for a week and half).

So I don't see how they could be a going concern with a profit at that rate per employee, much less **revenue**.

not a big fan of the revenue per employee metric either as it doesn’t really tell the story. Atlas outsource basically all of its ground handling and maintenance so there’s a bunch of employees that would bring that number down considerably.

Atlas can afford an industry standard contract though. a better metric would be the revenue per block hour which has been over 10k all year for atlas. Any passenger airline would kill for numbers like that. When you look at an 8 hr flight where fuel is paid for you are talking 80k so whether the 3 pilots cost 1600 each or 2500 each isn’t going to move the needle much on profitability

Great point.

Did you know: Atlas/Southern and other ACMI arrangements, the customer pays the fuel?

All legacies, including FDX and UPS pay for their own fuel.

yep plenty of money to go around. The pilot group must be willing to go to the mat for it but it’s for sure there. Covid and the continued growth of e commerce should eliminate this c or b scale of acmi for good.

Also,


Atlas is gonna make $3.1 billion this year


Amazon bought 1.3 million shares


They've got $729 million in cash


They're not giving the $406 million in tax payer CARES money back that was intended for payroll


The profit from the charter business is up over 1200%


Jet fuel is really cheap


I'm sure if it wasn't for those pesky pilots, they could probably make even more.


......sarcasm intended......


It'd be great if they can add a figure to the flight plan that said "Dollars you'll make the company for this flight" and put it right next to the Cost Index. Maybe that'll wake people up.

CORRECTION:

UPS 2020 revenue estimate = $82.54 billion.
Divided by 481,000 total employees = $171,600/employee.

Makes a lot better sense.

This includes all the ground delivery drivers?

I haven’t checked his long division, but his total looks about right. There may be a few more temp hires for the holidays.

Should also include the part-time package tossers making $12/hr at 20hrs per week.

I recall some parts of the FedEx operation being contracted, so those "employees" may be excluded and drive their number up.

Or the delivery persons, direct and contract? Different than the PAX airlines or the smaller package airlines that do not do last mile delivery to the customers.

To some extent, my perception is UPS is different than FEDEX in terms of number of delivery persons to amount of packages delivered to different addresses. FEDEX may deliver a number of packages to one business address at a time, UPS delivers that same number of packages to separate individual residences, taking more delivery persons. I may be wrong, but that is my perception.

We both deliver to both residential and business addresses. Business to business shipping tends to be more profitable due to the higher number of packages per stop. UPS package car drivers (all Teamsters) deliver both next day and ground packages. Routes vary wildly based on the needs of the local area, but most drivers do the same route for years. Hence the familiarity customers have with their driver. FedEx drivers (not unionized) work for either their ground or their Express divisions. This is why you can have two different drivers deliver to your house the same day. They were mostly contractors, but I believe they are being brought in house. FedEx has also discussed trying to merge their two delivery services to attain greater efficiencies. I don’t know if that’s happened yet.

Its important to remember that next day air at UPS was an add on service to a pre-existing international ground network to compete with FedEx’s invention of the overnight business. FedEx ground is FedEx’s successful attempt to muscle into the traditional parcel post business dominated by the USPS and UPS.

I fail to see how that relates to the point/message of the OP?

Bottom line, during the most profitable time in company history Atlas is about to impose pay cuts and wipe away what little scope protections we have if an arbitrator rules for the company.

We're now fighting the Southern EXCO. Southern is refusing to sign the arbitrator selection agreement because their 500 member pilot group decided at the last minute they want 50% say in negotiations along with the 50% input of the 2000 Atlas pilots. Possibly a management ploy by pulling the strings of Southern to delay a JCBA into a 6th year, but one thing is for sure, the Fab Five Execs are laughing all the way to the bank.

Is it too late to get out the stapler?

^ because 500+ Southern line pilots have anything to do with whatever strife there is between the EXCOs. Smart.

Super smart. Evil cheap southern pilots.

So the Southern pilots should just bend over and let BK and crew decide what is best for them? Seriously, would you do that if in our position? Why should we give up whatever rights we have? It’s the Atlas side (and the execs) that have delayed this for so long. The lost $ over these years will NEVER be made back.

I know what I wouldn’t do. I wouldn’t low ball a pilot group that’s been fighting a for an industry standard contract for 5 years. That’s been sued and working under an injuction. Especially one that offered you date of hire without an expensive legal battle. Especially after you’ve got how many raises since you were acquired. The southern guys mean well I’m sure. The line pilots I’ve met have all been great guys but taking whatever we can get right now is not what atlas pilots elected this Exco for. It’s not an option. Industry standard or nothing

I know if we were bought by UPS or FEDEX I'd drop the attitude tomorrow and let them handle ALL of the negotiations. Ego has no place at a negotiating table. You want what's best for the Southern pilots, let the guys who've been doing it for 5+ years continue to do so unencumbered. Your contract was brought up to par already and collectively it will benefit all in the future. Only management wins when we fight internally.

Industry standard (or better) or nothing.

Ego does play a role. BK has a large one to feed and an axe to grind. I’d trust the FDX or UPS negotiators also. I don’t trust yours....just scroll back and look at Jackstraw’s comment as an example of some pilots’ underlying attitude.

Seriously, what I would do is present a united front to management.. Is asking for UPS or FedEx level contract considered "bending over"? The company can well afford it. We're going to be stuck with this next JCBA for the next 10-12 years, with no vote to improve our lot on the next one. Remaining forever the lowest paid carrier after Kalitta, ATI, ABX, Omni, with worse work rules than some regionals of 20 years ago acceptable?

The effort for an industry standard contract may come up short but the saying, "Shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you'll land among the stars" comes to mind. If we settle for what the company wants we'll get less than nothing.

All true! However, it’s about time the Atlas EXCO treats the Southern pilots as an equal partner. We are numerically a smaller group but not about to give up any of our rights. I have never heard a Southern pilot hoping/threatening to take advantage of the Atlas pilots. All one has to do is read some of the posts here on APC over the last 4 1/2 years or spend a little time on GiantComms to see the the lack of respect a very vocal minority of your pilots have. The actions your negotiators have taken at times also reflect this. Equal partners for a new CBA or nothing. Our lack of trust is well deserved.

Equal partners?

It would have been great to see 50% on the picket lines.

Southern has nearly sold us all out at every turn. It's been the Atlas crews fighting to put in a floor under Southern's bargain basement deal making, protecting the entire group.

Southern has done quite well for themselves fighting the Atlas group every step of the way. Imagine how much better they'd do if they just sat down and kept their mouths shut.

You just made my point - Sit, down, shut up, we are Atlas we know what is best is the attitude we are forced to deal with. Here we are almost 5 years later with nothing to show for the path that BK and crew have chosen.

What in the world are you talking about?
You got PARITY. I mean, for the most part. Lucky the Atlas Neg Comm came in to save your team from themselves. Even after you guys fought them the whole way.
Just stop digging your own graves and we all might get out of this alive.

False. The Southern Union asked for parity from day one. Many on your side wanted us to vote it down because somehow you thought that it would benefit your cause. You were willing to sacrifice the Southern pilots for a false hope of bringing JD to his knees. Your EXCO did nothing to help the Southern pilots reach parity....it was quite the opposite.

Start treating us like equal partners in this battle and we might actually get this done.

Is this a question? Because there's a big logical error here. Maybe you just haven't done the calculations, or maybe someone is lying to you.

But from the very beginning, like say, Jan 2016, there has been zero point for the Atlas crews having another group work at such a severe disparity. It was in the interest of Atlas crews to have Southern at full parity from day one.

Sorry. These lessons come hard and fast. I'm not sure in what sort of fuzzy math it benefits Atlas crews to be undercut.

It was all about the falsehood of negotiating leverage if the Southern pilots said no. We had to end run around your EXCO to prevent them
from blocking parity. Everyone of the Southern pilots saw the advantage of a level playing field and avoiding “almagamation”. We looked at the players on the Atlas side and their very public statements and boasts and knew that this was going to be a long, drawn out battle...not 5 years + long but still long. There was no way we were going to hold ourselves down below parity despite BK’s best efforts.

It’s time for your negotiators to offer a hand of cooperation and not a hand trying to shove us out of the boat.

This is a ridiculous synopsis of the last 5 years and everyone knows it.

Even the company would have a healthy chuckle.

But before I sign off for the night, consider this, the merger is inevitable. And your group is literally a fraction of the overall membership. Just like Polar (if you bothered to look at the history) your group will be absorbed and neutered. Kick and scream the whole way if you like, but you're just making it worse for everyone else.

Enjoy your drink. I'm done.

....and there lies the problem. You can’t see past the various “pilot groups” that make up AAWW even though we all want to work to reach the same end goal. Work with us instead of trying to marginalize us.