Atlas Air Fleet Type differences
 

Could someone break down some of the plusses and minuses with each fleet at Atlas/Southern, and maybe a brief overview of what kind of flying each does?

747: most money. Most schedule changes. Leave the country on day 1 and return on day 17. 90% overseas. Hard on your body. OK pay. Bad QOL.

777 (from what I gather): DHL. Laps around the planet to the same places. More stable schedule. Mellow folk.

767: junior flying is domestic Amazon and DHL. Senior flying is international DHL and AMC pax. Week on week off (10 days on or 6 days on). Not so hard on your body. Bad pay. Decent QOL.

737 (from what I gather) Hang out around CVG lots. Fly 20 hours a month.

Some southern person can correct/update me. Hope this helps you select a fleet or class date.

can you be more specific about “hard on your body”? Are you referring to the constant time zone change and long flights? Anything else one should consider

Flip flop your circadian rhythm multiple times per trip. I find the worst to be the 24 hour layovers where my body clock gets completely turned around.

That's perfect, thanks!

On the 737, you rarely see CVG. I haven't been flown to/from CVG once! :D
Plenty of AFW, RIV, IAH and BWI

• Irregular sleep patterns
• Irregular feeding frenzies
• Bad posture / little movement
• Irregular exercise regimen
• Cosmic radiation with 8-14hrs at cruise
• Carpal tunnel due to slow hotel WiFi/VPN

What else?

Happy to help.

Thanks for the correction.

What's the upgrade time look like?

Hard to say. Right now it's about 5 to 6 years (I'm going to get corrected here), depending on fleet at Atlas. Someone at Southern can answer about those fleets.

Upgrade time varies a lot with retirements, attrition, customers and planes. Not long ago it was less than 3 years. Not long before that it was almost 10. So I wouldn't come here banking on a fast upgrade since the fleet that's growing today can be the fleet that's shrinking tomorrow.

it is difficult to accurately guess what the upgrade time is until the 2 pilot groups are combined and everyone is able to bid across all 4 fleets. As a result of that, I imagine upgrade time will decrease from the current 3-5 years on the Atlas side and around 2 years on the Southern side. Of course accelerating attrition and possible fleet growth will also effect upgrade time. If you have not flown ACMI international ops or similar you would probably not want to upgrade with less than 2 years anyways. Just my $.02

737:
We are all based in CVG, but we rarely fly out of CVG,(I have flown 2 times out of CVG in one year), making most of the 737 crews home based, the schedules are pretty light, mostly one flight a day, sometimes 2, I have never seen more than 2 legs, long overnights, pretty relaxed, if you want to log flight time, the 737 is not for you, average line is about 35 hours a month, however because of CRT (credit rig pay) the average line pay is about 75 hours a month, so basically you get paid for TAFB, not really flight time.

Also I have seen an increase on split trips on the 737, instead of 17 days On in a row, you get more like 10 on 7 off, 7 on 5 off, something like that, which I really like.

Can someone elaborate a little more on the difference between the 777 and 747 flying is? Schedule, average legs per day/ length, fatigue/QOL on the road? Are both subject to 17 day trips?

How senior are the 767 split lines? Also, how long before someone could get CVG and/or JFK?

Also, do the 767's have the flat panel glass cockpit upgrades, and if not are they scheduled to?

CVG often goes to new hires. If you happen to get ONT as a new hire...getting to CVG before training is finished is realistic. Junior JFK 767 FO was hired June 2020. I can’t answer how senior any FO lines go.

They have the old school original cockpits. Flat panels have been scheduled and re-scheduled for several years and pushed back every time we get near the day. I think now they’re scheduled to start retrofits Dec/Jan time frame, but don’t quote me on that...I don’t really pay attention because I know it will be changed and I honestly don’t care if we ever get them.

Thanks.....

So which fleet type would be best for someone who like their time at home? Don’t mind knowing I’ll be away but would rather something closer to 7/7 than 20 days on the road or reserve.

Eh…..Embraer 190 or A320?

Southwest on the 737 ain't too bad either.

737 might be the best, but that's for someone at Southern to answer.

You can get split lines on the 767 as a pretty junior FO. Those run 10 on, 6 off, 7 on, 7 off, or close to it.

Also, where's home? Where you live plays a role in what fleet you may want to go after. ONT 767 works well for west coast folk.

Interesting thought as I showed a SWA friend the new 737 numbers and said their close to his outfit. No way as I gleamed APC numbers. He then sent me direct from their website actual numbers. Something is amiss as they were lower than reported here. Granted they have soft pay and he said the pay on their home site is slightly higher than shown based on pay per trip vs pay per hour flown and rigs. (1 hr = 1.15 trips). But the rates were as follows: 12 yr Capt $245.64 2020 / 12 yr FO $171.95 2020 pay rates. Hmmmm.

South Florida. I’ve been wondering that also.

What are the seat lock rules? If I take a spot on the 74 and want to transition to the 76 or vice versa, what’s the process?


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Tampa Reserve on rhe 767 is nice, but lines change all the time. We usually have MIA flying on the 767 as well. Same mention of lines changing. MIA is super senior for the 747.

I don't know about 737 stuff.

Expect lots of American miles as you fly to work.

18 month seat lock for new hires. If you bid up in pay rate, 18 month seat lock on new equipment. Lateral pay rate bids(we don’t have any 2 fleets the same pay rate so this is not applicable at this time) incur 24 month seat lock. If you bid down in pay, 36 month seat lock.

Seat locks do not apply when bidding for your first Captain position with the company. If you spend 18 months in the 747, then go to the 767(“downgrade”) you would have a 36 month seat lock…but if you could hold Captain, in any fleet, in, say, 18 months…you would be awarded that bid.

New hires is 24 months, isn't it?

I’m pretty sure it’s 18 months for new hires…but I just looked through my PDF’s and I can’t find the one that shows details about what was already agreed upon. Section 24, Filling of Vacancies, is what addresses seat locks. 24.K I believe. That section was TA’d several years ago.

I could be wrong, though…it wouldn’t be the first time…not even the first time today. I’ll see if I can dig up the TA’d sections info.

Ignore my previous about seat locks. I tried to edit it but the edit timer ran out while I was doing so and now it can’t be edited.

CRJJ called me out on some of my numbers, so I had to dig up the documents and pull the correct numbers. I pulled them from memory on my first post…I’m not sure if they have changed in the past couple years since I remember hearing that from a negotiator or if I’m remembering incorrectly.

24 month seat lock for new hires.

18 month seat lock for bids that are on higher paying equipment.

30 month seat lock for bids on same paying or lower paying equipment.

Upgrade from FO to Captain voids all seat locks and can be done anytime, to/from any aircraft.

Sorry about the initial misinformation.

The way I read it is, probationary crew members 24 months on initial position, and once you don't have a seatlock anymore, if you bid another fleet, it'd be 18 months. But we'll find out soon. Hopefully it's 18 and I'm wrong, that way I'll be able to bid other fleets in a couple of months :)

Turns out you were correct. Thanks for calling me out on it.

FYI, I found that information on the “exhibits” PDF that was linked right below the arbitrator award in the email from 2750 on Friday. It was on page 293.

I was gonna tell you the page number as well. Still wonder how the training department is going to deal with all the potential fleet transfers. I guess they'll limit movement somehow.

My guess….and only a guess…is that JD will refuse to honor the shorter seat lock times for 9-12 months. He will argue that the training department won’t be able to handle the fleet transfers that would come with probably close to half of the currently seat locked pilots coming off seat lock all at once. The union will disagree, it will go to the arbitrator, and the arbitrator will give JD whatever he wants. The arbitrator has already proven he’s JD’s whipping boy, so I don’t expect that to change.

It’s going to be chaos no matter what. I know of a few LCA that are seriously considering resigning from their LCA position and just go back to flying the line. Being an LCA here gives you a 10% pay bump….which is pathetic and not worth the risks involved.

You gotta love this guy huh? Well I sure hope he doesn't do it, that would **** me off a lot.

All these threads talking about single pilot long haul and automatisms.....I always said no way!, but this JD would freaking love getting rid of pilots.

Oh you are not wrong, maybe he's at the top of the list, but Fred Smith's investment for over a decade are astronomical compared to wishes of JD... it would cost $ initially so it will take time if you get my drift. Don't think for a sec that no other outfit owner/CEO, etc. is watching closely for a breakthrough of any type.

JD would LOVE to get rid of ALL pilots tomorrow. Without a doubt. Single pilot…in the equipment we operate…is not viable. It would cost more than several decades of pilot salaries to retrofit these airplanes with equipment (that does not yet exist) in order to allow the aircraft to be remotely piloted from the ground in the event of a pilot incapacitation in a single pilot plane.

Add to that the fact that the workload can be extremely high for two pilots when things go wrong and single pilot ops in these aircraft is a non starter. Maybe down the road in aircraft specifically designed for single pilot ops…but not our current fleet.

There are simple things that are difficult in single pilot ops. Try reaching the gear handle from the left seat while hand flying on a V1 cut…it’s not easy.

Totally agree, hence when I said “get my drift” = it’s expensive and we’re too cheap. Real issue is long haul 4 Pilots down to 2. Still investment required but that will happen way sooner than any single pilot ops mentioned. Cathay and some European outfit started pressing forward/focusing on this a few months ago. Baby Steps, but when proven, the pile on won’t be long.

*I think they already have the shock color proven/tested for the awake pilot, stay awake dammit. ZaaaaPoW!!!

Of course that’s true. He’ll take all the $$$ he saved on this CBA and throw it into pilotless technology.

He’s a greed-obsessed lawyer who runs a company. When seen through this lens, all of his actions are 100% predictable.

The union’s current effort to shift all blame to Dietrich is merely a deflection tactic to cover up the face that good ol’ Bob Henderson was pretty much right all along.

Colossal union failure.

Bobb would certainly know a union failure when he sees one. He's a walking talking living example of failing his crew members. AS IF he would fared any better against the company. He had his chance nearly 20 years ago.

Ah, ok…I get it…You’re a Bobb Boy! ‘Nuff said.