Originally Posted by ACMIguy (Post 3474071)

After 12 years at Atlas I consider myself blessed to be where I am. A 767 captain living in base (CVG). I bid for and usually get my first or second choice every month. I usually get 16-17 days off a month. I get two months of vacation a year now. When I do fly I usually fly one leg and I’m off for 24-30 hours. The hotels are decent (Hiltons, Hyatts, Marriotts), we get the points. When I did gateway Atlas bought my ticket to/from work and I got the miles. When I got there they paid for my hotel room. I haven’t worked a day of overtime in years and still manage $280k. I could
easily pull a 4-5 day open time trip every month and make $350k, but I’m all about QOL and family time. I fly with FOs who make over 300k all the time. I love the pilot group I fly with. And all that Atlas asks for is that you’re receptive to change when the schedule occasionally blows up. We’re not a scheduled airline and the pilots here need to have flexibility in their skill set.

Like most pilots growing up I saw myself in a blazer and hat walking through the concourse with a Starbucks in my hand. But I’m a lost generation pilot and it wasn’t in the cards. At 43, I’m now getting emails weekly from Delta, SWA and others. After interviewing at AA and UPS and being offered class dates I chose to stay here. Starting all over at the bottom of a seniority list halfway through my career doesn’t appeal to me. Crashpads, hot reserve and junior manning don’t appeal to me. I think there’s a lot of 5Y pilots like me considering how few leave the company after the 7/8 year mark.

Also, Atlas hired me in 2011 when literally nobody was hiring. At the time Atlas and JetBlue were both hiring in trickles. They had a pool of thousands to choose from and they gave me a chance. I’m not sure that loyalty has a place in the workplace anymore but I do feel an appreciation to Atlas for offering me the chance to spend 30 years flying 747s, 777s and 767s to every corner of the world and have fun doing it.
So I have a vested interest in seeing our airline thrive.

Originally Posted by atpcliff (Post 3474010)

All AAWW shareholders will get paid $102.50. There will be no more shares, as Apollo is taking them private.
Currently, DHL owns 49% of Polar, which is part of AAWW (Atlas-airline, Polar-airline on paper...valuable Asian routes, Titan-acft leasing).

Originally Posted by HPIC (Post 3474216)

So you’re averaging over 83 hours a month, 12 months a year? That’s what it takes to make 280k on 12 year 767 Captain pay..about 998 hours pay for the year. That would most likely mean you’re training on your days off(thus working overtime) and/or selling your vacation time back to the company at a reduced rate.

The numbers just don’t add up. $250k I would believe if you sit reserve every month or only get very high CRT/block lines and book your vacation time the same months as training so you’re only at min guarantee for 2 months out of the year.

Originally Posted by Lionhaart (Post 3474235)

there’s COVID pay and profit sharing (of which I got 8k as a second year FO). That can perhaps bump it. Also reserve lines are 80+ credit hours for the 76

Originally Posted by HPIC (Post 3474216)

So you’re averaging over 83 hours a month, 12 months a year? That’s what it takes to make 280k on 12 year 767 Captain pay..about 998 hours pay for the year. That would most likely mean you’re training on your days off(thus working overtime) and/or selling your vacation time back to the company at a reduced rate.

The numbers just don’t add up. $250k I would believe if you sit reserve every month or only get very high CRT/block lines and book your vacation time the same months as training so you’re only at min guarantee for 2 months out of the year.

Originally Posted by ACMIguy (Post 3474262)

My average line value is 72 hrs. I haven’t ever sold back my vacation (again, QOL) and I haven’t done training on days off in at least five years. I have never done an open time trip at Atlas. With 22k in profit sharing I’m currently at $163k YTD. Don’t care what your math methodology is…my pay statement doesn’t lie.

Originally Posted by C17B74 (Post 3474294)

Definitely doable playing it smart and I parallel your numbers as a mere FO with a bit higher average monthly hrs. Art33, profit sharing, GDO credits occasionally, one attempted extension but I was paid for it coming home on my time, no open time, always conflict bid - but it has been a very lucrative year with Art33 additions being always primary lines rarely 17 days (one this year). Caveat: Senior FO / 747.

*Drop in pay expected with vaca and training later this year. Atlas is what you make or can make of it. Here’s to us and hopefully a decent future ahead.

Originally Posted by Birdsmash (Post 3474231)

So you are telling me that private companies are not divided up (shares) by their investors like Apollo, Lehman, and Hill City?

Originally Posted by atpcliff (Post 3475171)

I don't know how DHL will get compensated for their 49% stake in Polar. AAWW sold 49% of Polar to DHL. DHL doesn't own any publicly traded shares from that deal, as there are no shares of Polar, only AAWW.

There will not be any publicly traded shares left, as they will all be bought by the Apollo led group. Will Apollo pay money directly to DHL? Maybe. Will DHL be part of the ownership group? I doubt it, as they were not announced as part of the group.

Originally Posted by C17B74 (Post 3473305)

Interesting, you obviously don’t “work” here or must only hang with Delta/UPS employees that are at least 20 yrs deep in their seniority and then some. Plenty of my friends are paid more but work way harder. (Days away is definitely a factor no doubt, but not the contributor like the great “optimizer” that all the rest suffer from). Apollo will probably seek that “optimizer!” no doubt… maybe get compensated like the others, who knows anything we will just have to wait and see. Overall you did have another point awhile back “management uses our love of flying against us”, perhaps it was in a different context but there are parallels. Crap, I’ve been swindled.

*No matter what happens we are pawns in game of life. Ride it out, resume ready, recession or not, war there maybe here, enjoy what you can as best you can. None of us have voted on anything relevant here.

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475445)

No I don't fly for Atlas, or UPS, or Delta. But I do have friends at UPS who are making 300+ as 3rd year FO's. They work 12-14 days a month.

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475445)

No I don't fly for Atlas, or UPS, or Delta.

Originally Posted by dera (Post 3475459)

Show your math. 135-ish hours of credit per month in 12-14 days?

Originally Posted by SealingStemBolt (Post 3475474)

So why are you posting here?

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475481)

I guess I could call him and have him show me the math.

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475482)

Only because I found Dera's comment on leaving for another airline ridiculous. But I guess Atlas Pilots are making more than I thought.

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475445)

No I don't fly for Atlas, or UPS, or Delta. But I do have friends at UPS who are making 300+ as 3rd year FO's. They work 12-14 days a month.

Originally Posted by atpcliff (Post 3475528)

Money is a concept. You can't use it to be satisfied with your life.

I had the chance to apply to UPS previously to coming here. You would get ANC, and then have to commute there. The UPS pilots I knew all hated it, I didn't want to move to ANC, or try and commute there, and I didn't want to do hub turns...I had done a number of those, for about everyone with a hub...not my favorite. I didn't apply at UPS.
I was here 6mos? 1 year? My buddies at FedEx called and asked if I wanted help moving to FedEx. I told them I'd rather stay here at Atlas.

Anyone that leaves their job for more money? I understand that reasoning, For me, if I have "enough" money, then more is only marginally helpful.

Anyone that leaves Atlas, hoping for a better situation? I hope they get what they want.

Originally Posted by C17B74 (Post 3475575)

^^^^^^Very Well Stated^^^^^^
Everyone is different and I wish everyone the best on their endeavors and what drives them. Every year for over a decade I have great friends of mine at Brown/Purple always offering to help carry me over the threshold to their pastures for which I am grateful, but they understand when I call for that liftoff it will be when this place loses the priorities that have originally been met and I am willing to start elsewhere in the salt mines and accept my fate. Just me, it’s been a blast, who knows what the future holds and I can only hope it continues. I hope everyone finds their Dream career!

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475482)

Only because I found Dera's comment on leaving for another airline ridiculous. But I guess Atlas Pilots are making more than I thought.

Originally Posted by APCbot (Post 3475445)

No I don't fly for Atlas, or UPS, or Delta. But I do have friends at UPS who are making 300+ as 3rd year FO's. They work 12-14 days a month.

Originally Posted by 160to4 (Post 3475843)

Buddy at UPS, 4th year, $320K (gross). Has to pick up trips to do it, so averaging at least 17-19 days at work.
Chicken dinner to the first who says “your buddy doesn’t know how to bid”.

Originally Posted by dera (Post 3475856)

Your buddy doesn't know how to bid.

(Just looking for a free chicken dinner here)

Originally Posted by Logged (Post 3476314)

Apollo is known to invest on companies with bad labor conditions and never improve them. They do improve shareholder profit though. Sunny maybe but could be better.

Originally Posted by CRJJ (Post 3476381)

Should we quit now or wait a bit longer then.

Originally Posted by CardboardCutout (Post 3476175)

2nd/3rd year UPS F/O, 74. Should gross about 300k this year. Averaging 15-16 days per month, so picking up the occasional JA and trip trading for a few extra hours here and there, but nothing outrageous. If the JAs dry up, that number will go down. Just for comparison, I have no dog in this fight.

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow (Post 3476927)

Another guy who was at Sunny for the the Apollo period…I have no idea what their plans for Atlas are, but just wanted to give some background on the Sunny endeavor. Sunny wasn’t public and taken private, they were privately held. Jude Bricker had a sizable amount of cash and wanted to buy Sunny straight up from the previous owner, who he knew personally but who also wasn’t an airline guy and didn’t really know how to make money at it. Except Jude’s sizable amount wasn’t airline-buying sizable, and so he is who brought Apollo in to help finance the purchase. I heard this from Jude directly. He saw potential, and likely pitched it to them as a distressed business that could be taken public for a relatively quick cash-out with some industry veteran leadership and a little capital infusion. Apollo ran the board and had some plants in management, particularly on the finance side, but I don’t believe they got their fingers into the business as much as some even at Sunny thought. I don’t know if this is how Apollo normally operates or not, but Jude seemed to reference Apollo as a peer investor or financier more than a puppet master. So Jude staying on as CEO was likely always the plan. From how I heard him tell the story, it was his airline and his plan, and he just needed some deeper pockets to make it happen. That said, who knows what Apollo’s plan is with Atlas. Obviously if they are buying in they see untapped potential, and I hope whatever it is ends up being great for the pilot group. Also, I know nothing of your current leadership or if they are good or bad, but it is possible that they are party to the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Atrasaty (Post 3476974)

Thank you for that insight. With regard to our management….. proven not to be trusted. This was always the end game in my opinion. The whole contract fight was about scope. The plan all along was to package us up for the equity market so the top officers and stake holders could cash out. How this all turns out remains to be seen but without a total re-set at the top level then I don’t see a return on investment for Apollo. The cash is flowing for now due to the Covid effect but that will eventually come to an end and we will be back competing in the real world where the numbers won’t be as impressive. With the amount they paid to take us private you would hope they have a plan. With privacy comes secrecy and the ability to take our already opaque corporate culture to the next level. If the plan includes us remains to be seen but rest assured we will be the last ones to find out.

Originally Posted by HELOWING (Post 3477514)

I’m a new hire atlas as of June currently waiting in training pipeline for the 76 sims to unclog. When my class was in Indoc we had a rash of management come in to greet us. They hinted towards something big. I asked along with a few others and they wouldn’t go into details. I guess we know now what they meant. They kept saying it was growth. If there are any new hires after myself in Indoc reading this thread- what is being said now? I hope a few new guys behind me have the courage to ask some questions.

Originally Posted by Birdsmash (Post 3477542)

Management was very restricted what they could say about the acquisition last week at the dinner hosted in Anchorage. However, they tried to point towards Apollo’s history of improving and growing companies.

Originally Posted by HELOWING (Post 3477514)

I’m a new hire atlas as of June currently waiting in training pipeline for the 76 sims to unclog. When my class was in Indoc we had a rash of management come in to greet us. They hinted towards something big. I asked along with a few others and they wouldn’t go into details. I guess we know now what they meant. They kept saying it was growth. If there are any new hires after myself in Indoc reading this thread- what is being said now? I hope a few new guys behind me have the courage to ask some questions.

Originally Posted by Elevation (Post 3477840)

Every class has a management visit where big growth is discussed. Not saying it won't happen, but don't get excited or worried. Hope you enjoy the 767.

Originally Posted by NoJoy (Post 3477846)

Well it’s hard to grow when Atlas is still losing 30+ pilots a month on average to other airlines-

;)