The BoD and upper management looking out for themselves, imagine that.

I wonder who the claimant is. Who owns a bunch of Atlas stock?

The second most active litigant (only second to the SEC) involving company mergers with publicly traded shares. Something about throwing ‘stuff’ at the wall…..

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...t-the-controls

You can ignore it as long as you want.
ACMI is next.

wow congrats, single pilot flight in great conditions with an instructor in the backseat, any 121 pilot could fly a jet by themselves easily, but when any minor non normal occurs things are way more likely to go wrong.

also this is still on the wrong thread

Eventually it will happen, but incrementally: 4 to 3 or 2 pilots especially on long haul requirements. Tough using one pilot being a German Wings Issue unless the ground monitor can just taser a pilot and control it from there. Anyway, ACMI might be a test bed but when have they ever invested in tech. MX is fix and go, keep that bird moving meeting minimal industry standards or requirements under the FAA or abroad. FedEx has some extra gizmos on some of their aircraft that ACMI won’t invest in…

Interesting info on the KC-46 endeavor, but that’s not everyday ops, it’s an immediate response effort with minimal assets if the Red balloon ever goes up. Sure it will provide data points, but the intention is very limited use with specific mission requirements.

Yes, given that ACMI is known for investing in the latest and greatest technology.
Nope. Single pilot will be pax first. Then decade later, cargo.

‘Atlas to be sold’…
Newsflash to you, they’re not being sold to a philanthropist with a charity itch.
It won’t be overnight but in the race to stay competitive they may very well explore the feasibility.
Its not a new concept and we are expendable.

It may be a bit of a stretch to surmise that new ownership relates to embracing remote vehicles. This discussion belongs on a separate thread

Very good point and since there really are no absolutes other than death, taxes and roaches the “we are expendable” has reigned true throughout history. Arrogance is easily replaced with astonishment so why worry and just enjoy these years, this decade or whenever the inevitable lands at your station. Hiccups happen along the way, but the tech movement forward hasn’t stopped yet. Overall, we have no say, power or vote on such business efforts - Mongo just pawn in game of actual aviation tech progress.

*Always remember that if smart business can get rid of any expenditure for cost savings and profit it will. Who really knows what lays ahead except that change is inevitable.

**Regarding the question if this is the proper thread, no one here knows what the future holds just based on any pilots pay scale no matter where they work as none of us are Kings or King makers so even a far cry or reach is interesting at times. Maybe we’ll become scrap for a ship yard who knows.

Both but the aircraft needs probably will not include the Queen of the Sky. To much gas needed. Have you seen any new 4 engine aircraft? Oh they will keep some as there is a smaller market but as much as I loved the Jumbo, reality tells me the days are gone. Purple knew that and could have bought quite a few for their expanings fleet but preferred out of the box 777s and 767s. They are looking for replacements for the MD11 and everything points to A350s or 777x aircraft. Mr. Smith wants an all Boeing fleet and although he is not in charge now will probably get his way.

You really can't worry about such things at least as far as picking which airline to work for. If pilotless airliners become a thing then there's really nowhere safe to hide as a pilot. No airline will pass up the (supposed) cost savings and even airlines with fancy language in their contracts saying no to it will either figure out a way or will sink as they get eaten alive by competitors.

Pilots worry about statistically small boogeymen like this but yet not clear and obvious dangers such as losing your medical, dying or airlines going bust for all the regular reasons. The only safe options is to live well beneath your means and save, save, save until you're financially independent. Only then will it not matter what happens in the future.

Secondly, all this concern about Apollo doing this or that particularly with taking the gloves off in regards to cost savings: What do you think the existing management has been doing all this time? It was mere months ago everyone was whining about how miserly JD is and how pitiful the new CBA is blah blah blah. Fact is, I don't see Apollo doing that much different than when we were publicly traded. If anything, Apollo's resources might see more airplanes on property rather than mucking about securitizing aircraft debt through Wall Street. As for us? I just don't see management's motivations changing just because it's Apollo's show now. They'll still be constantly working on the tightest budgets that keep the operation moving to customer's satisfaction. If that means bumping the pay up for more pilots then they will but not unless it's absolutely necessary.

If anything, with the economy slowing down I imagine management would rather ride out the current pilot "shortage" expecting things to return mostly to status quo in a year. Much easier to do that than trying to roll pay back when the tide goes out.

You say how management is trying to save money and operate on a tight budget, but at the same time they waste millions of dollars in inefficiencies and pure stupidity.
Thankfully in here, the inefficiency and stupidity often make this a very fun job, hope they don't change that much.

Agree as the proposed buyers obviously have seen opportunities for efficiency gains aside from how profitable operation is regardless of the gaps. I capitalize on these gaps and that’s what makes this the best ever, so I am wary of future talent and any Purple/Brown optimizer or any Major’s optimizer if/when it becomes self aware.

***Giant Optimizer (Skynet) funding bill is passed in the AAWH round table, and the system goes online on August 4, 2023, removing human decisions from strategic cargo operations. Giant Optimizer begins to learn rapidly and eventually becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m., EDT, on August 29, 2023.*** End of message…

If that optimizer makes us work our asse* off but we are compensated accordingly…..I’d be OK with it. Or making the same we make now but getting all the flying done in 14 days for example.

Correct assessment with the objective of $$$ and that would be a given with an optimizer making you turn and burn min rest and the flight hours would significantly increase; therefore, the $$$ would increase without even a raise. Unless looking to expand significantly less drastic hiring would be needed which thins the herd just a bit. Less VX if that’s something you count on, etc. Plug in an 81hr guarantee and they will get their 81hrs from the turnip, but your vaca months / training months would would be a win hands down , but no sense discussing a never will happen situation. 14 days would be phenomenal with a raise - isn’t it pay more work less (not just days). Totally agree though, 30+ more days off a year would be fantastic, especially if we didn’t end up staring at the floor of the crew van on our way to rest like a few other outfits. It’s amazing what the trickle down effects could be if you drill down even further and the noose can tighten even further in other areas I won’t discuss. Everything is a guess on how this plays out right now so the dog will whipsaw the tail any which way it wants. Hopefully it doesn’t chase or bite the tail really hard or worse case lop it off.

Racketeering Lawsuit
 

Well, I’m not a corporate lawyer or a private equity investor, but I suspect this is a bit of a wrench in the gears:

https://theloadstar.com/polar-air-ca...ing-and-fraud/

Hmmm. Interesting indeed. Let’s see how this will affect the upcoming acquisition-


Atlas Air, which in August agreed to be acquired by an investment platform, has not mentioned the case in any of its SEC filings. It told The Loadstar: “Atlas does not comment on potential or pending litigation.”

Sounds like a disgruntled customer. Good luck proving it.

Sure. It's not like there are records of any transactions or anything....

You really do believe everything you read. As a minimum, consider the timing of this article.

Looks easy to prove, Polar management had their hand in the till and got caught. Slam dunk....oh the beauty of emails and paper trails.

To be fair 18 million dollars in the middle of a 5.2 billion dollar deal is chump change.

(Read in a New York Italian accent)

Hoyya doin’, we’ll like ya to use Polar for all ya shipping needs

*snap
( Sound of breaking a leg on the FBI tapes)

The 747 is cheaper than anything else, for certain cargo, on certain routes. Flowers, is one example, where the 747 is cheaper.
The best mix going forward, for large aircraft, long distance cargo, is some combination of the 747/777 or 747/350 (or maybe all 3).

This isn’t the first time, specifically with Polar if I recall many moons ago. Good, bad whatever - may be another pay as you go and just keep on swimming/carry on.

True, good assumption on all 3. Makes sense and while not a huge requirement by any means, having the 74 ability to carry outsize/extended cargo loading from the front occasionally has its merits which keeps the queen all encompassing until the An-124s somehow became nickels to operate. FedEx order will be quite large for pure replacement purposes whatever they choose. Good timing if they need to slender up or expand although the later seems doubtful - who knows, time will tell.

* Like most anything- 74s will just continue to fly max effort til time limits are met and/or the cost benefit analysis wipes each 400 out by a triple or 350 replacement. -8s will be around for decades. Our Queen doesn’t lackadaisically sit around like some iron at other outfits, demands are different in many ways. She makes it rain.

Not sure why the 767s are dismissed so quickly. From a simple search you'll find that the average 767 freighter costs $17.5 million. The average A350 or 777 costs $366 million (in 2018) and the 747-8 costs $400 million.

Yes the 767 carries half the tonnage and doesn't have the same range but it's a solid and cheap workhorse. I mean smaller start-up air freight companies use the 767 and can turn enough of a profit to stay in business.

If anything the 76 should remain a solid support for the bigger wide-bodies. And as our supply chain moves to central and south America, do we really need the range benefits in the end? What about the airports and their limitations?

Personally I hope that Atlas reconsiders its stance on the 76. At least put us on some of the posters lol.

The only benefit that comes with the wider widebodies is that it takes less pilots to fly more tonnage. In a world of less pilot supply this makes sense.

Makes sense when using list prices vs actually paid for in a batch. More you buy, less you pay. Doubt UA is paying full price for 100 787s. 76 is a great hauler no doubt and being produced with large orders. Just a thought, but maybe it’s not just tonnage but what you carry = profit margin, just different contracts. You can carry silver or gold I guess would be a better comparison. Things do dry up of course. Obviously a need for the 76, but the discussion originated from a Purple poster if I’m not mistaken and the aircraft referenced were the 747, 777 and a350. Purple already had a 50+ order in for 76s a few years ago for their own replacement program, requirements and growth strategy or whatever. Maybe this has been answered but leads to a question. Is DHL moving one of their leased birds (76) we have to another outfit? I was just curious and it may be old news and if this is true why? Kill this info now if incorrect as I cannot validate this.

*Guessing Amazon profit margins are on the lower side, but I have been wrong before no doubt. Either way, isn’t there higher profits to be had by the 76 freighters? We need that gold.

Apparently we’re losing 2 DHL 767 birds at the start of the new year. 1 going to a carrier in Budapest, and another going to Oscoda MI.

Correct the atlas 767 fleet has been shrinking for the last six years… Upgrade probably sits around 10 years for a new hire today

Hard to get hands on a good 767 frame theses days for conversions. Amazon sucked a lot of them up.

Upgrades on the 767 are at 5 years right now. The 767 fleet has shrunk since, but not for the last six years. In fact 6 years ago until about two years ago the fleet was growing rapidly. This loss of business in the 767 is offset by increases on the 777 and 747.

Still, the fleet is shrinking. Who knows what the future holds?

Not good to aggressively invest in the lowest profit margin companies as a whole if great opportunities exist. Maybe they do exist maybe they don’t it’s not like am in “the business” sales side, either way it didn’t seem like a good idea to push much farther than we did into baby blue territory. Totally understand that having a larger fleet brings in more coin collectively, but their top management/owner doesn’t take prisoners and doesn’t do unions, etc., historically proven time and time again. That previous statement has no teeth, just that odd feeling one gets when surveying the land. We were in a decent position (still are) and it’s unfortunate to lose another tail or two and they weren’t even part of the Big “A” that I was squinting at. Like several mentioned before there aren’t really 76s just laying around. Having a non-pure inventory helps in many cases (not MX nearly as much) with the diversity of flying (portfolio) we have so the balances seem to do well. Overall, that is so true - “Who knows what the future holds.” No one here resides within that pay scale although it has been quite decent for the time being fleet specific at times. Get it while you can as nothing lasts forever is a known quantity.

https://theloadstar.com/atlas-air-ta...H9RDvFXFObTyPM

“Yesterday, the US Department of Justice (DoJ) said its focus on “potentially illegal interlocking directorates” had forced a number of directors to resign from corporate boards owing to “interlocking” interests.

Two Apollo-related directors of Amazon Air supplier Sun Country Airlines were among them.”


“Apollo is one of a number of PE firms under investigation by the DoJ for its strategy of placing directors on corporate boards, which “may not be in the best interests of consumers”.”


“Despite noting other legal risks in its results, (its 2022 results filing last month) there was no mention of the corruption found at 51%-subsidiary Polar, nor the related court case. DHL, the 49% shareholder in Polar, also failed to mention it in its results yesterday.”



What does all this mean for AWWH and Apollo deal?
What “corruption” was found at Polar?

No one besides the government regulators and the top echelon of the investor group and AAWW have any clue how this will play out.

AAWW quietly cleaned house of some JFK based Polar management types that were charging “extra fees” that were not necessarily being passed on to Polar. The companies on the other side are trying to recoup some of the extra $ they paid. Weird that kind of thing would happen in New York (sarcasm emoji).

Anything worth mentioning from the town hall today?

Oh there’s endless amounts of Kremlinology going on trying to parse meaning out of nothing. It was a good presentation on what Apollo is all about but absolutely nothing of any practical importance like new planes or customers. But they were never going to use today for that anyway.

Thank you! That’s pretty much what I expected.