Leave a LCC for Atlas
 

Thinking about leaving a US major for Atlas. I am 45. Retired miltary. I have experience in Military, ACMI, and ULCC flying. No widebody time though. I left an AMCI 3 years ago for a ULCC thinking that I would stay there until retirement. I miss homebasing. I miss cargo. I hate the FA 's, and passengers. Lol. I miss sitting for the sort at CVG. I miss the organized chaos of cargo ramps. And I miss my beard, lol! Am I crazy to think about applying for Atlas when the window opens? I know that there will be biased opinions here.

Hey, you got a pension that adjusts for inflation and TRICARE for life. Do what you like and what works for you.

Yeah, that does free up a lot of options for me. I just always hear that a US major is everyone's goal. I am at a ULCC, so it isn't one of the legacy majors, but I have it good. I work 5-12 days a month and pull long call reserve from my living room. Making 115-200 a year as an FO depending on if I want to hussle. And the airbus is a the nicest office I have ever had. But I am just not as happy as when I was flying Postive space down to CVG for an 8-12 day stint of flying night cargo. And I really don't care at all about destinations or schedule. When I am at work I am the companies and I don't care what they do. Except I would love to fly Airbus heavy, but not really an option in the cargo world.

As a Brown guy who can grow the beard and fly wide bodies around the world (but currently a domestic Bus driver), I’d say go for it so long as it’s not going to damage your family life. If this desire is a reaction to a recent or ongoing divorce, I’d say give it a year to let your emotions settle first.

ACMI as a lifestyle with homebasing definitely has an appeal for some folks. If that’s you go for it. If you are looking for a compromise between that and pax flying, a place like Brown or Purple could be a good fit. Obviously, we are both in the middle of ugly contract talks and Purple has ceased hiring for now.

Not a reaction to anything. I just feel that I have given passenger flying a real chance, and I don't like it. I would absolutely consider brown or purple, regardless of ongoing negotiations. With the pensions and tricare I can afford to ride our CBA troubles. I don't know if I could get on there, though. 3000 total hours, no 121 Pic, and no wide body. Plenty of international time in the Americas flying ACMI and plenty in erupoe and Asia flying miltary (actual airports and in the airspace, not just bases and training routes).

Atlas isn't currently hiring either, and no clear timeframe of when that will resume. I assume enjoying sitting the sort in CVG doesn't necessarily mean sitting in exactly CVG, but just in case you should know Atlas closed it's CVG base and we almost never fly through there any longer.

Not trying to discourage you - I really like working here, even with the current QOL changes and travel agency headaches we're working through. I wish you luck if you make it over here, there's a lot of good people and interesting flying that happens here!

You might be more competitive at Brown than you think with that diverse background. The only real fly in the ointment is I have no idea how many new hires we will bring on board this year. The MD going away will generate significant training center churn and we don’t have a lot of spare capacity.

That said, Atlas could be a great fit for you. If you want to be able to see your work trips as company funded adventures around the world. ACMI could be pretty sweet.

Thanks for advice! I don't really care about "seeing the world" . I look for the best food in the area and relax at the hotel gyms and pools. I usually bid my trips around food. Philly for Cheesesteak, NC and Tennessee for BBQ,Mexico for tacos, California for sushi and Ramen. I get made fun of often. Lol. I just like the relaxed pace of flying cargo and I like being off when I am off. I will throw an app in at brown. I only wish they would get modern airbus cockpits I will sure miss that tray table.

Airline flying/lifestyle isn’t for everyone. Go be happy.

To each their own. I would never do it in a million years, though.

Is atlas even hiring?

I would highly not recommend

the 74 is great, some of the hard rest locations are fun, but after a year the dumpster pay and QOL catches up.

Upgrade time, seniority, commute on your DAYS OFF, and at 45, you’re nuts brotha

Good thing he’s ‘merican huh. Otherwise you’d really be negative. 😂

It’s good to get both sides. However MELedMEL could be given a pot of gold and he’d complain it was too heavy.

As an Atlas guy, I'd say this is sort of a lateral move. A year in and you'll be equally frustrated. It's just the flavor of that frustration that will change. Negotiations are just starting now, so If expect a pay increase no earlier than 2029/30, given how long negotiations typically take. We are owned by private equity and are for sale.

This being said I like my work and the people I work with. So if this is what you want to do, great. I'd just recommend you move towards something you like rather than away from things you don't like, if that makes sense.

Seting aside the fact that Atlas isn't expected to open hiring until later this year, and also that we don't sit sorts, aside from the occasional Atlas appreciation lines for UPS and FedEx during peak... and to fill-in for the MD-11; no, you aren't crazy.

Some people like cargo, some like the wide variety offered by fractionals, some live in Atlanta or Denver or Dallas, or Seattle and are crazy to no at least try for a Big 5 career. There is more to life than an over-flowing bank account, and at the end of the day if you aren't happy going in to work, then you need to find a new path.

Apply when the window opens, then if offered a position you can make a choice. Until then, keep researching the company to make sure you choose the best option when and if the opportunity presents itself.

With atlas pay you ain’t going to have the gold and you’ll probably have to put the pot on your credit card lol

Though atlas was a great experience, it was probably the worst QOL I have had in my career

A lot of this is relative. It depends on the person, depends on the company they previously worked for, depends on the company they’ve moved onto when they’re trying to compare jobs, etc. You ask 50 different pilots their experiences about Atlas or any 121 job for that matter, you’re likely gonna get 50 different answers. Sure there’s gonna be some similar answers with some, and some slight variations on experiences, but you will still get 50 different takes on it. Some people stay at the regionals forever (aka lifers). I honestly have no idea how they do it, as I couldn’t comprehend working for a regional for more than about 8-10 years as it would just wear on me like a ragged dog. But I’m sure many of them have their reasons for staying and not going anywhere else. Oftentimes when I get to talking to people in these situations, I go “thats a legit reason.” Then I put myself in there shoes and think I don’t know if I would do anything different if I were them. Sometimes “life happens.” If it floats their boat…..

Likewise some people may really, really like the gateway travel that atlas offers and prefer to commute only twice a month vs non revving 7-9 times in a month at a regional/major and then feeling like death at the end of each 4 day, slogging it out through terminals and dealing with thousands of pax each time. It gets overstimulating for a lot. Some people may just like flying that doesn’t involve the crowds. Can’t blame them as I work for a pax carrier. Dealing with not only pax, but gate agents and flight attendants after 3-4 days, hell, even for the first couple of days, can wear you down. Each trip can make you feel like you’ve aged a little bit. Some companies and some hubs/airports are worse than others.

Also some of the happiest people I know don’t make ‘top pay’ in their fields. Many are perfectly ok making less but doing something more fulfilling.
It’s not all about the money hoss. Pipe down.

I know several former military pilots that served a good career in the military, are great people, but have told me flat out they have no desire to go to the airlines. They are done with being gone and don’t want to be gone anymore as they were probably gone a lot during their time in the service. Many of their reasons were similar to what I just stated. Not everyone looks at the profession and is enamored by the high pay that it can provide.

It seems like you’re at a major now, from what I can gather. You probably complain about stuff nonstop at ur shop, but then come on here and make it look like it’s all sunshine and rainbows. No?

Soon about to end.

I am at a major. Money isn't really a factor. As long as I an keep it above 150ish a year we have more than enough for our lifestyle. Early retirement is already factored in.

I am at a major. I don't really complain at all. Lol. Comes from miltary days. Just go to work and don't complain. If you don't like something, then change it. If it can't be chnaged, then leave. Now point in being negative. I have it good. I probably make more than most senior captains when you figure by per hour worked,noted absolute pay. Buy that requires some hustle and can backfire into a bad month.

Basically, I know that the grass is not always greener. I have flown passenger and cargo. ACMI and major. I miss cargo. And the biggest downside that I see is the days per month worked and living in base. I currently live 2 hours from base and can work 5-7 days in a month if I want. Or work 20+ if I want to buy a toy.
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Is that an already signed agreement between the company and union or is that just something you’re hoping for in negotiations?

It's my understanding that it's uncouth to discuss CBA negotiations in public. But I've never worked at a union shop so idk.

If it’s something that’s already agreed to and signed it’s not part of negotiations. If it’s just an ask during negotiations that he’s referencing then it’s not exactly negotiating in public. I know how his union works…I was a member for 7 years.

Commuter Policy MOU, it's on the Union website.

so now you commmute on your first work day as you should?

If that’s the case just need to increase pay like 30% or so and fix the upgrade time issue

Read the MOU. Good stuff in there.

Good to hear. I’m glad you guys are getting better work rules. I left several years ago after 7 years there and a 767CA at about 30% overall seniority. I don’t have access to any of the union or company data anymore.

I left as a result of the last contract that was crammed down our throats by the arbitrator. The pay was bad enough…the work rules sucked…but the 2% DC was the final kick in the teeth I needed to bail. I hear you guys are up around 12-14% DC now. I’m happy for you. There’s still a lot to fix there…but I guess that can be said with any airline contract.

The commuter policy is industry leading. Not just ACMI, I'd take it over any other airline commuter policy there is.

16% DC started this January.

Lot needs to be done. But the trend vector generally points in the right direction.

Being able to report up to 3 hours from first report will be a game changer for a lot of folks.

Doesn't equate to other ACMI home base policies, be we also don't owe 17 days a month. We are owed at least 13 off. Huge difference, unless folks are just used to bidding 17 day lines.

I can't complain too much about our schedules or commute. Some things still need work, and that was in my survey. I am on a primary line, Day 2 of a 6 day pattern that started off with 3 DHs to an airport not too far down the road from my from my front door... and I am standing in my kitchen making pancakes for my kids. Tough way to earn a paycheck.

Industry as in ACMI?

All the home based charter folks have commuted on days on since forever

It’s good they are heading in a more acceptable direction however

No, industry as in industry when talking about based airlines. I'll take this over any legacy policy. Home basing is comparing apples to oranges. For commuting, this is the gold standard.

ahh so for 121 fair enough

Lots of 135s with commute on day on and also better pay than Atlas.

But if you just want to be 121 and home based, never mind the income or days off, I agree atlas is the best

14ON and 14OFF schedule a sweet deal for a 135 flying a G600. The pay is equivalent a 12 year CA at atlas... Also a nice per diem on top of the company credit card for food and whatnot. Those long 4-5 days overnight in Nice south france can get you spoiled for sure

But you still need to load the bags and greet the pax with smile... 🫩

Embrace the Suck

You’ve already moved once, don’t do it again.
Unless you really really want to you never have to interact with any passengers.
No cringey PA’s, no dad jokes at the gate, none of that.
You’ll leave tons of money on the table leaving AGAIN.
Bid widebody, bid reserve, do one landing a month and enjoy your life and retire early.
Stop chasing, you’re THERE.

Worst in your entire career? What sort of charmed life have you lead?

What are you talking about? It sounds like he's at Spirit or Frontier. Last I checked, they don't have widebodies.

Never considered it was charmed till a year or so in at 5Y. I also never really understood why people say “cooperate to graduate” till I experienced their training program.

Pardon my ignorance but he did start with:

AA and Yonited are LCC’s

He said ULCC, not LCC.
I thought it was pretty clear he was Spirit/Frontier or similar, not a legacy.

Title of the thread is LCC…. Frontier/Spirit are considered majors in the scheme if earned revenue….

They don’t have WBs…

Hopefully you guys definitely get some improvement in work rules/pay.

For me, at my age. When UAL called, I couldn’t say no because of retirement/pay…

The only thing I miss are the Fixed Pattern Lines…

That’s some Class-A cope there homie!

Well, now that Atlas ordered the A350F you will have the chance to sit in that nice Airbus office again.