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-   -   Possible Pilot Deviation (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/aviation-law/109714-possible-pilot-deviation.html)

JamesNoBrakes 04-04-2018 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2564607)
The ASRS is protected within the body of the report, but not the title, which means that if the FAA learns of the violation based on the body of the report, the FAA may not take action. If the FAA learns of the violation from another source, which includes the title strip, the FAA may take action on that information.

A pilot who offers the strip when asked about an incident, or even in a matter peripheral to the incident, may incriminate himself and provide the legal impetus to investigate or to secure information to use against the pilot in the appeal process.

Whether you as an inspector routinely comb ASRS reports, or whether you have routine access to them, is irrelevant to the subject of what's protected and what's not.

Many people have the misconception that the FAA has access to ASRS reports or that they even care whether a report was filed, in that it would somehow change an investigation. This is in stark contrast to ASAP (and now Compliance Philosophy), which absolutely changes an FAA investigation.

If you hand over everything and the world, well that's up to you. If you know you are innocent and have information that would indicate this, the FAA wants to know about it, if you feel better doing it through a lawyer, all the more power to you. If you hide this information, you may be dragging yourself through a process that could have been stopped a long time ago.

JohnBurke 04-04-2018 01:56 PM

Many of us have far, far too much experience with FAA abuse and too many years dealing with the FAA to buy into the bull**** of kinder and gentler compliance based philosophy. Anything you say can and absolutely will be used against you, and no, the FAA is NOT interested in your explanation of innocence unless it yields ammunition to use against you.

Don't call the tower. Don't respond to that letter of investigation, in the hopes the FAA will bless you through teary eyes and send you on your way. Call an attorney. You'll hear all day long that you don't need one. The person who tells you that does not have your best interests at heart. Know it. Embrace it.

The FAA is not your friend.

B757 04-04-2018 08:45 PM

Don't call the tower. Don't respond to that letter of investigation, in the hopes the FAA will bless you through teary eyes and send you on your way. Call an attorney. You'll hear all day long that you don't need one. The person who tells you that does not have your best interests at heart. Know it. Embrace it.

The FAA is not your friend.[/QUOTE]..

..Unfortunately this kind of thinking has became the mentality in the US today..People trying to sneak away from their responsibilities, and hide behind the lawyers when they know they are wrong..

..What about accepting the mistake when it happens..??..Be a man..
..My experience with the FAA / ATC has been the exact opposite..I have made a few mistakes in the past..As a professional pilot I have accepted the responsibility, and shared my views with the FAA /ATC..Guess what..Not a single investigation / violation on my record so far, after 30 yrs of flying around the world..

..Here is my advise..Do as they say, be honest and accept your responsibilities..The best and easiest way to handle any situation, whether it happens in the skies or in everyday life..
..I have spoken..

Fly safe,
B757

JohnBurke 04-04-2018 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B757 (Post 2565260)
Don't call the tower. Don't respond to that letter of investigation, in the hopes the FAA will bless you through teary eyes and send you on your way. Call an attorney. You'll hear all day long that you don't need one. The person who tells you that does not have your best interests at heart. Know it. Embrace it.

The FAA is not your friend.

..

..Unfortunately this kind of thinking has became the mentality in the US today..People trying to sneak away from their responsibilities, and hide behind the lawyers when they know they are wrong..

..What about accepting the mistake when it happens..??..Be a man..
..My experience with the FAA / ATC has been the exact opposite..I have made a few mistakes in the past..As a professional pilot I have accepted the responsibility, and shared my views with the FAA /ATC..Guess what..Not a single investigation / violation on my record so far, after 30 yrs of flying around the world..

..Here is my advise..Do as they say, be honest and accept your responsibilities..The best and easiest way to handle any situation, whether it happens in the skies or in everyday life..
..I have spoken..

Fly safe,
B757[/QUOTE]

It's advice, not advise.

Legal counsel has never been "be a man."

Yes, you have spoken, but badly. Foolishly, too, and clearly without foundation of understanding of experience.

Seeking legal counsel (this is a form on aviation law, a discussion of which is decidedly not "be a man," which has no bearing on a discussion of law, and is irrelevant) is not unmanly; it is the intelligent course of action when attending a legal matter.

If you have a medical issue, seek a doctor. If you seek to understand flight, seek a flight instructor. If you have a legal issue, see an attorney. This is not hiding behind an attorney. It's learning your rights and what to do and what not do to. Your counsel is the embracing of ignorance, which is neither prudent nor intelligent, and very, very bad advice (not advise) in all matters legal, and not.

Blackhawk 04-05-2018 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B757 (Post 2565260)
Don't call the tower. Don't respond to that letter of investigation, in the hopes the FAA will bless you through teary eyes and send you on your way. Call an attorney. You'll hear all day long that you don't need one. The person who tells you that does not have your best interests at heart. Know it. Embrace it.

The FAA is not your friend.

..

..Unfortunately this kind of thinking has became the mentality in the US today..People trying to sneak away from their responsibilities, and hide behind the lawyers when they know they are wrong..

..What about accepting the mistake when it happens..??..Be a man..
..My experience with the FAA / ATC has been the exact opposite..I have made a few mistakes in the past..As a professional pilot I have accepted the responsibility, and shared my views with the FAA /ATC..Guess what..Not a single investigation / violation on my record so far, after 30 yrs of flying around the world..

..Here is my advise..Do as they say, be honest and accept your responsibilities..The best and easiest way to handle any situation, whether it happens in the skies or in everyday life..
..I have spoken..

Fly safe,
B757[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately not all FSDO's and not all Safety Inspectors are the same. There are some who view suspensions, even over minor issues, as a means of safety enhancement.
I saw one young CFI with your attitude go into a FSDO without legal representation and wind up with a 15 day suspension for a right hand pattern. Did not interfere with any other traffic, no safety issue. Heck, he did what most of us probably would have done. Someone else was already there in the wrong pattern as he came in off an instrument approach so he fell in behind him rather than cause an issue. Someone on the ground turned in him, but not the other airplane.
He was honest and "manned up" without legal representation and had his flying career killed before it even began.

GogglesPisano 04-05-2018 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B757 (Post 2565260)
..Unfortunately this kind of thinking has became the mentality in the US today..People trying to sneak away from their responsibilities, and hide behind the lawyers when they know they are wrong..

..What about accepting the mistake when it happens..??..Be a man..
..My experience with the FAA / ATC has been the exact opposite..I have made a few mistakes in the past..As a professional pilot I have accepted the responsibility, and shared my views with the FAA /ATC..Guess what..Not a single investigation / violation on my record so far, after 30 yrs of flying around the world..

..Here is my advise..Do as they say, be honest and accept your responsibilities..The best and easiest way to handle any situation, whether it happens in the skies or in everyday life..
..I have spoken..

Fly safe,
B757

This is probably some of the worst advice I've ever read on APC.


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