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-   -   Ramp Check Question (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/aviation-law/37734-ramp-check-question.html)

jedinein 04-10-2009 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by PGTx (Post 593772)
Best advice in the thread that has been completely ignored.

Once it goes to LOI or proposed penalty, it's too late for a higher-up to solve this. It's now FAA Legal that has it, and if FAA Legal has taken it, FAA Legal thinks there is a case. Now it's a matter of fighting it through the lawyers and to make dang sure one doesn't miss a deadline. Miss a deadline and it's game over as evidenced in many postings from this character:

Reigel & Associates, Ltd. Aviation Attorneys

Postpone relatives' funerals, trips, vacations, illnesses, etc, don't miss a filing deadline!

Cubdriver 04-10-2009 08:30 AM

Sounds to me like her best bet is to argue her violation was not intentional since they are obviously not going to stop for anything. It is truly regrettable the FAA is spending our federal tax dollars pursuing such a trivial things as this case. But it seems they would have a hard time arguing she intended not to have her medical card, and a NASA-ASRS exception to punitive action would then apply. If she intended not to bring it, then why did she put it in the bottom of her bag? Can they prove it was not in the bottom of her bag? All they can claim is that she did not produce it upon request, and all it would seem she needs to do is argue quite truthfully that she intended to have it and had trouble finding it.

rickair7777 04-10-2009 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Cubdriver (Post 593937)
Sounds to me like her best bet is to argue her violation was not intentional since they are obviously not going to stop for anything. It is truly regrettable the FAA is spending our federal tax dollars pursuing such a trivial things as this case. But it seems they would have a hard time arguing she intended not to have her medical card, and a NASA-ASRS exception to punitive action would then apply. If she intended not to bring it, then why did she put it in the bottom of her bag? Can they prove it was not in the bottom of her bag? All they can claim is that she did not produce it upon request, and all it would seem she needs to do is argue quite truthfully that she intended to have it and had trouble finding it.

Administrative law is not held to the same standard of proof as criminal/civil. If the FAA makes a reasonable case, it is YOUR problem to disprove it.

The FAA seems to hold the opinion (and often been backed the NTSB) that "unintentional" errors can only occur in an operational setting, ie flight or taxi, where the pressure to perform in a certain time frame can lead to errors.

Administrative or documentation errors are excluded on the premise that you have all the time in the world to get your paperwork in order BEFORE flight. Time pressures due to get-there-itis or company on-time performance don't count.

If I were ramped BEFORE a flight and I was missing something I would simply say that I had not gotten to the point in my preflight preps where I checked all the docs. They would have trouble with that one. There's no law that says you can't prefilght an airplane without a license/medical/photo ID, etc. This is why savvy feds prefer to ramp those returning from flight.


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