Aliens and the TSA?
03-10-2009, 05:01 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 778
Aliens and the TSA?
Ok so today the school I work for, a category 3 school, was inspected by the TSA today. One of the things he looked at were our records on our foreign aliens, we have only had about 5-10 foreign students since the beginnings of the TSA. One guy is enrolled in single engine commercial and the inspector was concerned because we didn't have a letter in his record saying that he has been authorized for single-engine commercial pilot training. He does however have an authorization to begin AMEL land training in addition to his previous private and instrument authorizations.
Doesn't the TSA only require an authorization for sport, recreation, private, instrument and any multi-engine training? I discussed this with the inspector and he said that any "alien", regardless of certificate level, has to have authorization.
After reading the FAQ from the TSA website, here, and talking with AOPA legal, they all say that I am correct in that the commercial certificate is exempt from the rule. Here is an excerpt from the TSA website...
# Category 3 Clarification - For flight training in the operation of aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 lbs. or less, Candidates must obtain AFSP approval for the following three training events:
* Initial airman's certificate, including a private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate.
* Instrument Rating (IR)
* Multi-Engine Rating (MEL)
Each of these three events requires a separate training request.
All other training events on aircraft with MTOW of 12,500 lbs. or less are exempt from AFSP regulations, including Commercial Pilot License (CPL), Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL), and Certified Flight Instructor (CFI).
There is even a reference to a docket in the TSA website that clarifies "flight training".
As I said, we talked to AOPA legal, got the above from the TSA website, and I even called the TSA helpdesk. Unfortunately though, the help desk was so overwhelmed with calls that I had to leave a message. I want to make sure that I when I present this information to this particular inspector that I'm not missing something.
Am I missing something here?
Doesn't the TSA only require an authorization for sport, recreation, private, instrument and any multi-engine training? I discussed this with the inspector and he said that any "alien", regardless of certificate level, has to have authorization.
After reading the FAQ from the TSA website, here, and talking with AOPA legal, they all say that I am correct in that the commercial certificate is exempt from the rule. Here is an excerpt from the TSA website...
# Category 3 Clarification - For flight training in the operation of aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 lbs. or less, Candidates must obtain AFSP approval for the following three training events:
* Initial airman's certificate, including a private, recreational, or sport pilot certificate.
* Instrument Rating (IR)
* Multi-Engine Rating (MEL)
Each of these three events requires a separate training request.
All other training events on aircraft with MTOW of 12,500 lbs. or less are exempt from AFSP regulations, including Commercial Pilot License (CPL), Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL), and Certified Flight Instructor (CFI).
As I said, we talked to AOPA legal, got the above from the TSA website, and I even called the TSA helpdesk. Unfortunately though, the help desk was so overwhelmed with calls that I had to leave a message. I want to make sure that I when I present this information to this particular inspector that I'm not missing something.
Am I missing something here?
03-10-2009, 05:13 PM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
FWIW, I agree with your interpretation of their FAQ.
It also makes logical sense...a terrorist would only be interested in technical skills, not meaningless pieces of paper from the FAA. Your first pilot cert, an IR, and a ME rating are all going to teach you how to operate equipment that you did know how to use before.
CPL, ATP, and CFI do not teach you how to operate new equipment, they simply refine your existing proficiency for regulatory purposes (or teach you how to teach).
Might want to check and be sure the regs haven't changed though...I would not really expect TSA to keep their web page updated...
It also makes logical sense...a terrorist would only be interested in technical skills, not meaningless pieces of paper from the FAA. Your first pilot cert, an IR, and a ME rating are all going to teach you how to operate equipment that you did know how to use before.
CPL, ATP, and CFI do not teach you how to operate new equipment, they simply refine your existing proficiency for regulatory purposes (or teach you how to teach).
Might want to check and be sure the regs haven't changed though...I would not really expect TSA to keep their web page updated...
03-18-2009, 04:52 AM
#4
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 5
One thing to remember to is TSA is just like anybody else. Some of their people are good and some have no business holding the positions they hold. In our area we deal with three different inspectors. One is great, high level of knowledge, and works with us. One is about middle of the road. And the last guy is a complete moron. Mis-interpets regs all the time and has to be "corrected" by his supervisor all the time after we have problems with him. Just because a TSA inspector says it is so doesn't make it so.
03-30-2009, 03:40 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: E190
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by Photon
Our school has tons tons and tons of alien students, and we only require the TSA for private, instrument and multi..
03-31-2009, 06:39 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: EMB-170 FO
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by multipilot
I discussed this with the inspector and he said that any "alien", regardless of certificate level, has to have authorization.
04-01-2009, 10:16 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 78
When I did my training TSA approval was needed and I quote "permission to train". As long as flight training was going I had I think a 1 year period to finish. If I changed instructors or schools I needed to have that updated.
As far as I know TSA only gives permission to train. Not approve ratings. And like was said before all the other ratings are basically ad-ons.
As far as I know TSA only gives permission to train. Not approve ratings. And like was said before all the other ratings are basically ad-ons.
