XcalibeR

Hi. I've been looking through some of these forums for a little while, and it seems there's some knowledgable people here. So maybe you could help me out.

Here's my situation. I am a private pilot with a current medical, etc. I work line at an FBO near my hometown. The FBO operates two C172's for rental. One aircraft needs to go to another airport, approx 10 miles away for maintenance (having trouble with the electrical system. 100 hour inspection is still 40 hrs away). So here's my problem. Am I legal flying the plane to the airport for maintenance?

Under part 61.113, "no person whol holds a private pilot certificate may...for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft." So this is what I am confused about, the definition of "compensation". I am not payed to be a pilot for the company, I just simply have a license. Also, I would be getting the same paycheck whether I fly the plane or not, so I do not believe that this would could count as "for hire". I am not planning on logging the flight, so I would not be getting compensation in the form of free flight hours, nor in the form of goodwill.

61.113 (b) says that a private pilot "may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraf in connection with any business or employment if: (1) the flight is only incidental to that business or employment, and (2) the aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire." Section (2) does not apply to me. Section (1), however, might. Would the situation described above be considered "incidental" to the business? Or do I even need to worry about 61.113 (b), if I'm not flying for compensation or hire as described in 61.113 (a)? Or am I?

You can see how confusing this is for me :confused:

ERJ135

Wow, thats a tough one, I would call your local FSDO office if know one else knows.

IronWalt

You have discovered a little grey area. Call the FSDO, talk to an inspector and let them know what you want to do. 1. They will probably compliment you for your adherance to the regs. 2. They will probably find some way to say yes its ok, so long as you do not recieve pay for making the flight.

You have certainly gained my respect for doting your i's and crossing your t's.

calcapt

I talked to a friend of mine at the local FSDO and he didn't see it as a violation so long as your employer had not hired you as a pilot. The flight is generating no income or gain for you above your normal on the ground income and your employer is not generating income so it should not violate the intent of the regulation. The flight is incidental as your employer is not in the business of ferrying aircraft for maintenance. The other thing that is potentially more serious is the airworthiness of the airplane. If the airplane is not airworthy (electrical problems), make sure you acquire a ferry permit from the FAA for your planned flight. And lastly, if the airplane is not safe to fly - don't fly it!

UConnQB14

i did this same thing last summer from central jersey to northeast philly airport (PNE) and was deemed ok by the FSDO because it was a non-rev flight and I was not doing anything other than what my job was, which was to look over the aircraft. The only reason I would transfer a plane however was if someone was renting a certain airplane from a particular airport, so i would just pull a quick swap... no one seemed to mind.. one word of advice however, while you're doing it, i wouldnt advertise it to anyone... lots of jealous folks out there who would love to get the free .3 on the Hobbs

grAviator

Would the .3 of time be considered some sort of compensation. The pilot does log it as PIC time for what that is worth???

Also what if you had to bring two other people with you. i.e. passengers?

ERAUdude

I think the FAA refers to compensation as any sort of monetary gain from piloting an aircraft. I've never heard of compensation being referred to as just free flight time. It works the same if you just rent an aircraft, and you're surely not getting paid to do that .

I don't see this as being a legal issue either. But, it goes back to the point made of the airworthiness of the aircraft and if you're comfortable bringing them along.


Kudos to you for checking with the FSDO though. Better safe than sorry.

NoyGonnaDoIt

==============================
Let me reiterate the FAA's position regarding a private pilot's accumulation of flight time. If that pilot accumulates flight time, the FAA considers free or reduced cost provision of the aircraft to be compensation, and the pilot is, thus, acting as PIC for compensation. (1992 FAA Chief Counsel Opinion)
==============================

==============================
With regard to this second prong of Section 61.118, the agency has repeatedly taken the position that building up flight time is considered compensatory in nature when the pilot does not have to pay the costs of operating the aircraft and would, therefore, be deemed a form of "compensation" to the private pilot under Section 61.118. (1990 FAA Chief Counsel Opinion)
==============================

Old stuff, applied a number of times.

cencal83406

Well what about flying clubs that get you steep discounts on flying. Or my old job, where you got a certain # of flight hours per year at 80% off because you were a full time employee. Is that then compensation?

rickair7777

No, that's just a benefit you get. Purely recreational flying can never be considered as being for compensation...what are getting paid for? Wearing out someone else's airplane?

There has to be a job that needs to be done, and you get something (money, flight time, discounts) in exchange for doing the job...flight instruction, aircraft repo, test flight, etc. Any flying of an aircraft which provides a benefit to someone else could be for compensation or hire.

As far as flight time being compensation, I think they would have to look at the individual pilot in question. They might be able to nail a low-time career-oriented pilot for that. I doubt they could get anyone who doesn't need the flight time for their career...doctor, businessman, widebody CA.