Logbook question
02-22-2011 | 05:46 PM
#1
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Logbook question
Doing some cleaning up of the logbook...and have a question
Couple months back I had the opportunity to seat right seat twice on a plane I wasn't typed in. I am fairly certain both aircraft require 2 crew members typed/current, but I am not sure. The first aircraft is a G150, the second being a HA850. Is this something I should keep well clear of my logbook, or put it in there, just not count it? If it means anything, both were Pt91 operations.
Thanks in advance
Couple months back I had the opportunity to seat right seat twice on a plane I wasn't typed in. I am fairly certain both aircraft require 2 crew members typed/current, but I am not sure. The first aircraft is a G150, the second being a HA850. Is this something I should keep well clear of my logbook, or put it in there, just not count it? If it means anything, both were Pt91 operations.
Thanks in advance
02-22-2011 | 07:41 PM
#2
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If you are not rated, you cant log it. Period.
Personally, I would not even put it in my logbook even just to say I 'have the experience'. An employer might look at that as your willingness to break regulations because you are flying an aircraft that requires both pilots to be rated, which you are not. Although, I don't have any jet experience or type ratings, so I might be wrong.
I knew a few people that were sitting right seat in king airs for awhile and logging the time, which is fine except they overlooked the fact they didn't have a high altitude endorsement. Apparently trying to explain that on an interview did not go so well for them.
Personally, I would not even put it in my logbook even just to say I 'have the experience'. An employer might look at that as your willingness to break regulations because you are flying an aircraft that requires both pilots to be rated, which you are not. Although, I don't have any jet experience or type ratings, so I might be wrong.
I knew a few people that were sitting right seat in king airs for awhile and logging the time, which is fine except they overlooked the fact they didn't have a high altitude endorsement. Apparently trying to explain that on an interview did not go so well for them.
02-23-2011 | 06:53 AM
#3
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Not true for SIC.
You don't always need a type rating to sit in the right seat, but there is some required training... Look at 61.55
There is a difference between the AIRPLANE being type certified for two pilots, and the pilot needing a type rating. SIC type ratings are usually not required by the airplane, but rather by the type of operation (ie, international ops per ICAO).
But either way, if you just went for an airplane ride with no training at all, better not log it. They might reject you for breaking FAR 61.55, or they might decide to talk in-depth about the peculiarities of the landing gear system in that airplane...which your interviewer will just naturally have 3000 hours in.
You don't always need a type rating to sit in the right seat, but there is some required training... Look at 61.55
There is a difference between the AIRPLANE being type certified for two pilots, and the pilot needing a type rating. SIC type ratings are usually not required by the airplane, but rather by the type of operation (ie, international ops per ICAO).
But either way, if you just went for an airplane ride with no training at all, better not log it. They might reject you for breaking FAR 61.55, or they might decide to talk in-depth about the peculiarities of the landing gear system in that airplane...which your interviewer will just naturally have 3000 hours in.
02-23-2011 | 11:16 AM
#4
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I'll just add that there is a strange danger in logging flights in which you have zero loggable flight time just to put it in there as a memento. Somewhat akin to the interviewer we keep hearing about who just doesn't like people who legally log certain things are the folks who feel that your use of your logbook as a diary or scrapbook demonstrates a lack of professionalism.
02-25-2011 | 01:45 PM
#5
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You don't need a high altitude endorsement to log time in a King Air, even PIC time. You need it to act as PIC.
You also don't need to meet the requirements of 61.55 to log SIC time in a multi-crew aircraft (which both you listed are), as long as you are flying right seat to meet the requirements of 61.55 (per section (f)(3)). If that is what you were doing then log away!
If you had passengers in the back before doing 3 landings, CRM, aircraft knowledge, and single engine maneuvering you should probably refrain from posting that on public forums; let alone put it in your log book. That could get you in a heap of trouble logging it or not.
You also don't need to meet the requirements of 61.55 to log SIC time in a multi-crew aircraft (which both you listed are), as long as you are flying right seat to meet the requirements of 61.55 (per section (f)(3)). If that is what you were doing then log away!
If you had passengers in the back before doing 3 landings, CRM, aircraft knowledge, and single engine maneuvering you should probably refrain from posting that on public forums; let alone put it in your log book. That could get you in a heap of trouble logging it or not.
02-25-2011 | 02:11 PM
#6
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
This is technically true, but I would not log PIC at all, even as sole manipulator, without 61.55 training. Many employers may not see the distinction, especially since most people just have one column for PIC, and don't attach a "I wasn't really the PIC" disclaimer to sole manipulator PIC.
02-25-2011 | 02:31 PM
#7
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61.55 does not apply to any King Airs because an SIC is not required. The 90's, 100's, and 200's are below 12,500 lbs. If you have a multi-engine license you are good to go.
Am I missing something?
Now would I get the high altitude endorsement? Sure. But that is 61.31. Have I given training to people in King Airs and left the PIC column blank when I signed the log book even though they were sole manipulators? Yes. That doesn't change the legality or the ability to log the time.
Am I missing something?
Now would I get the high altitude endorsement? Sure. But that is 61.31. Have I given training to people in King Airs and left the PIC column blank when I signed the log book even though they were sole manipulators? Yes. That doesn't change the legality or the ability to log the time.
02-25-2011 | 07:36 PM
#8
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Doing some cleaning up of the logbook...and have a question
Couple months back I had the opportunity to seat right seat twice on a plane I wasn't typed in. I am fairly certain both aircraft require 2 crew members typed/current, but I am not sure. The first aircraft is a G150, the second being a HA850. Is this something I should keep well clear of my logbook, or put it in there, just not count it? If it means anything, both were Pt91 operations.
Thanks in advance
Couple months back I had the opportunity to seat right seat twice on a plane I wasn't typed in. I am fairly certain both aircraft require 2 crew members typed/current, but I am not sure. The first aircraft is a G150, the second being a HA850. Is this something I should keep well clear of my logbook, or put it in there, just not count it? If it means anything, both were Pt91 operations.
Thanks in advance
You just can't count it toward any aeronautical requirements. And rickair is right, stay away from the PIC column unless you are totally qualified for any aircraft you fly.
You'd really only be able to legally log PIC time in the case of an emergency, like if the real PIC becomes incapacitated during flight or something.
02-26-2011 | 07:46 AM
#9
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IOW, log ANYTHING that doesn't properly fit into the column you put it in and the FAA is perfectly capable of taking your "prized possession" and using it to revoke all your certificates and ratings under FAR 61.59.
02-26-2011 | 07:57 AM
#10
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From: Self employed
You can certainly keep two logbooks. One as your scrapbook, log anything you want book, and another for job apps, ratings, etc.
My early log books from almost 25 years ago are all non-professional flying, and I logged everything, including notes about pax, hotels, fuel cost, maintenance issues, etc. Might even be a smiley face or two in there.
I don't really give a crap if some interviewer 3 decades later finds that not to his dainty liking for a $15,000 net pay per year regional jet job.
As to logging the technically wrong things, ya, fix that.
My early log books from almost 25 years ago are all non-professional flying, and I logged everything, including notes about pax, hotels, fuel cost, maintenance issues, etc. Might even be a smiley face or two in there.
I don't really give a crap if some interviewer 3 decades later finds that not to his dainty liking for a $15,000 net pay per year regional jet job.
As to logging the technically wrong things, ya, fix that.
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