How to give an SIC type (pt 91)?
 

I recently learned, unless I'm mistaken, I can give an SIC type in the Hawker. I do not have an MEI, CFII, etc but I do have an ATP and a Hawker type rating. I will have a new copilot, so after some training thats noted in 61.55, I can sign his logbook, fill out some paperwork and he can take it to the FSDO and he can get a Hawker SIC type. Is this accurate? And if so, can somebody help me with this process who as done this before?

Thanks.

I could be completely wrong, but I think the ATP instructor authorization applies to part 121 only.

A pilot may get an SIC type rating by completing SIC familiarization training as described in 61.55(d), or by satisfactorily completing an approved second-in-command training program or a proficiency check under parts 121, 125, or 135 as described in 61.55(e).
In either case, the application and pilot certification procedures for getting an SIC type rating is the same. The only difference is that under a training program conducted under parts 121, 125, or 135, the applicant has the option of presenting documentation to the Aircrew Program Designee for processing in addition to being able to present training documentation to an FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) or Examiner.
Note: There is no practical test required for the issuance of the ‘‘SIC Privileges Only’’ pilot type rating.
For complete guidance, please refer to the final rule or 14 CFR 61.55. The summary of the process is as follows:
1) The SIC pilot type rating applicant receives familiarization training under 61.55(b) from a qualified pilot in command or an authorized flight instructor who holds the aircraft type rating on his/her pilot certificate.
2) The trainer signs the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with 61.51(h)(2). In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant’s training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. See 61.55 for the definition of a qualified management official.
3) The trainer or qualified management official makes an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states ''[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second-in-command.''
4) The applicant completes and signs an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710-1, and presents the application and a paper copy of the training records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to a FSDO or Examiner.
5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the "Instructor’s Recommendation" section of FAA Form 8710–1.
6) The applicant must appear in person at FSDO or to an Examiner with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.

You're good to go. You are providing the training not as a CFI or under the ATP clause but as the PIC of an aircraft that requires a type. The Feds say for the SIC type that's all you need.

Thanks for the replies. I thought I read it right in the FARs, but I wanted to double check. I've never done this before, nor had to, so I just want to make certain that it gets done correctly. As a part 91 operator, we don't have 'training records' paperwork. From what I read, I can just take him up one time, sign his logbook, fill out 8710 and be done.

I'm pretty sure you're right. I believe it's instruction in conjunction with 121 or 135 operations.

Cantwin

You do need to give the required systems and emergency training. Are you a Hawker 125 operator and not sending a pilot to FSI?

GF

Is there a published letter of interpretation for this, something from a specific FSDO, or something specifically documented elsewhere that supports this?

I was always under the impression that an instructor pilot in such a situation either had to be an ATP—in a 121 or 135 environment—or had to possess the type rating + a flight instructor certificate with cat-class privileges to do the same training in a part 91 operation.

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, I'd just like to have something published to point to if what you have said is the case.

This is cutting into my beer drinking. I don't know where pokey's cut and paste came from but will you buy the Federal Register Fromm 2005?

Final § 61.55(d)(1)—The SIC pilot type rating applicant must receive the familiarization training under § 61.55(b) from a qualified pilot in command [See § 61.31(a)] or an authorized flight instructor who holds the aircraft type rating on his/her pilot certificate [See
§ 61.31(a) and § 61.195(b)]. The ground training under § 61.55(b)(1) may be given by an authorized advanced ground instructor [See § 61.215(b)], authorized flight instructor, or qualified pilot in command.

You can tell something is up in the reg because it says "Trainer" and not "Instructor."

I always thought ATP was all you needed as well. I think Twin Wasp provided all the evidence you need

Thank you.

It came from the NBAA website.

Citation sic
 

I also thought the endorser has to be an ATP. I have been flying right seat in a citation, and the pic is not a cfi or atp. Can he endorse me for the sic rating? I’ve never gotten an endorsement from a non-cfi before.

Just did it recently for a LR-45 SIC type at the Seattle FSDO. Had to make an appointment. You can do the paper 8710 but they preferred IACRA. I did it all on IACRA and it was pretty simple. Had to show the inspector my logbook and some company specific paperwork that showed I had completed ground and flight training on the aircraft. The aircraft PIC signs into IACRA as Recommending Instructor to sign.

I don’t think you need an ATP or a CFI to be the recommending instructor. Just a PIC type.

thanks for the info! I’m getting conflicting advice from a dpe Im friends with. He said the endorser must be an atp or cfi, AND the ‘chief pilot’ or flight ops director or something. But I don’t see anywhere that it says that.

how did you guys log your ground instruction?

I had my 737 type rated friend give the training for a my 737 SIC. We just made logbook entries showing we covered what was required. Funny thing was the inspector at the FSDO was completely lost and I had to explain the process to him. He asked another inspector who told him explained the process. In the end his comment was "I`ll send it in if they don`t like it they`ll kick it back". Went through no problems. The SIC is only needed for travel outside the USA. It`s actually not clear if one T/O and Landing is required.

The DPE is wrong. He needs to read the regulation and the 8900.1, specifically Vol 5, Ch 2, Sec 22. FSIMS Document Viewer