portfo

Just curious if there are any mainline international commuters out there, and their take on 117.25 para.b If I'm reading it correctly, pretty much after any crossing, you'll need 56 hours rest in base before going back out again.... This may put a big damper on international and even on domestic commuters who back their trips up. Any thoughts/discussion on this?

Thrust Normal

Yeah, that was one of my initial thoughts too. I'm curious to see if companies will end up building longer trips or if they'll end up building a lot more 3-5 day trips with the 56 hours off in between.

303flyboy

I know we have people who commute from Shanghai, Hong Kong, Stockholm, London .... Most these guys bid down to 50/60 hours, or build all their trips in 2/3 weeks working 2 weeks off.. 2 fa's who live in Brazil.. (They work part-time). I thought my 40 min drive to work was long..

Pavedickey

I may be mistaken here, but I believe this only applies during a flight duty period. The interpretation of a flight duty period does not include time commuting to work. It is up to the crewmember to ensure they are properly rested upon reporting for a flight assignment. I believe section d of the reg refers to "heavy rest", not commuting rest.

CFR 117.25
(b) Before beginning any reserve or flight duty period a flightcrew member must be given at least 30 consecutive hours free from all duty in any 168 consecutive hour period.

And:

(d) If a flightcrew member travels more than 60° longitude during a flight duty period or a series of flight duty periods that require him or her to be away from home base for more than 168 consecutive hours, the flightcrew member must be given a minimum of 56 consecutive hours rest upon return to home base. This rest must encompass three physiological nights' rest based on local time.

portfo

Pave dickey,
You're right. But that is the very issue. Whereas a guy now can finish his 3 day LHR at 15:00 and turn around the following day and go right back, now he can't do that. He has to have 56hrs rest in base. Therein lies the issue. Not the commute back and forth, the fact you can no longer back your trips up to maximize your time at work/ minimize your commutes.

MrMustache

Read the reg it says if gone more than 168 hours. A 3 day turn is 72? Or less.

portfo

Hmmmm.... Did you read the reg?

(d) If a flightcrew member travels more than 60° longitude during a flight duty period or a series of flight duty periods that require him or her to be away from home base for more than 168 consecutive hours, the flightcrew member must be given a minimum of 56 consecutive hours rest upon return to home base. This rest must encompass three physiological nights' rest based on local time.

It clearly states " more than 60 degrees long. OR 168 hrs away from base"
Seems pretty clear or does it not?

myoface

Hmmm....the way I read it is the OR applies to a flight duty period or series of flight duty periods that require him to be away for more 168 CONSECUTIVE hours AWAY from base. Seems to me that if you do a LHR turn in 72 hours you return to your base and thus reset your clock for the 168 hour requirement. I dont see that the OR applies to a crossing or 168 hours from base.

But you used big letters so you must know more than everyone else.

portfo

Oops. I apologize. I did mean to make them bigger, but not that big. I surf on the app and it doesn't show how big it is. I just wanted to emphasize the "or" , not make a mockery of it. I'll ask a mod to change it.
Back on topic, I don't know more than anyone else, that's why I am looking for clarification.
It reads to me it is either or... More than 60 degrees or the tafb. most crossings will be more than 60. So that would qualify as needing the required rest once back at base. Maybe I am reading it wrong....

myoface

Read it this way and see if it makes more sense....During a crossing that requires a crewmember to be away for 168 hours you must get 56 hours off at base. I am pretty sure the OR applies to a trip like JFK-AMS-DEL and back. You do a trip like that and you start to get acclimated to the other side of the world so they want you to acclimate back to home time before starting again. On the other hand, you do a Europe turn and you (or at least I dont) dont really get acclimated to the other time zone since you are not in it long enough.