This is most definitely NOT the case. The warning letter is an administrative action, one step shy of a violation, and is placed in the pilot's record, fully reportable for a period of two years. It is NOT confidential, and it will be viewed when FAA records are requested as part of the prior records improvement act process.

That is NOT the purpose or content of a letter of warning. The warning letter is often used when the FAA has no case. I have received two of them, both without merit, both stating that no evidence of wrongdoing could be found, then stating that XXX is a violation of the regulation. The wording of the letter gives the appearance that the recipient is guilty, when in fact the opposite is true. Moreover, it's placed in the recipient's record for a period of two years (and frequently remains there considerably longer, unless action is taken by the recipient).

In most cases, the future employer doesn't see the content of the letter; simply that a warning letter was issued for a regulatory violation. For all intents and purposes, it appears as though the recipient has violated the regulation. It's far from a slap on the wrist.

The ONLY purpose of that discussion with the inspector is to garner evidence to use against you. One would do well to keep that in mind.

As for having "the wrong man," I can tell you from personal experience that such thinking is quite naive.

Don't ever call the FAA expecting that you can "get them to drop it." Very, very naive.

Seeking legal counsel isn't about trying to weasel out of "taking your lumps." The system within which the FAA works, under Administrative law, is not your grand-daddy's criminal or civil law. One is very much presumed guilty until proven innocent. This is why the sentence is handed down BEFORE you get to prove your case; once you've been sentenced (violated), THEN you get to appeal. Any statements you have before then aren't testifying in your defense; you're testifying against yourself. This is a critical distinction. If you don't understand this and you believe differently, invest the effort and time to speak with legal counsel and get educated.

Hiring legal counsel does NOT undermine the "legal system."

Hiring legal counsel is not "disingenuous." It's the wisest thing you can do. I find that the majority of pilots with whom I speak (clearly evidenced here, in fact) have a very poor understanding of the regulation, particularly the enforcement process. What it means to an inspector and what it means to a career pilot are two vastly different things.

Hiring legal counsel does not waste anyone's time. It may save your career, though.

 

This is not true.

Perhaps you are confusing PRIA with FOI. I've seen plenty of PRIA letters.

Also, it's the "Pilot's Records Improvement Act".

John, if you have such egregious things happening against you without merit, you need to seek a lawyer. You're turning into a tin-foil hat. No doubt, things happened and there's a small percentage of bad pilots and individuals in every profession out there, but they are not all out "to get you". Frankly, the less time I can spend on pilot deviations or similar matters, the better. What incentive could there possibly be to act otherwise? I know of none. The FAA conducts their actions according to orders, if a lawyer doesn't know this, they aren't worth the money you are paying them. In addition to PRIA records checks, I've also witnessed letters expunged because they passed the 2 year mark. Letter was in database one day, gone the next. You may be thinking of suspensions and revocations, which was taken out of the FAAs hands by congress unfortunately.

There is an advisory circular all about PRIA. I highly recommend carefully reading it to any pilot.

 

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/p...OIA_and_PA.pdf

I can tell you from personal experience that this is often not the case. In fact, I've had employers approach me to say they received my records, including my "warning letters," long after the they were to be expunged. I used to carry those letters to interviews to ensure there was no misunderstanding.

I've seen it happen with others, and I've experienced it with new hires while processing PRIA paperwork during the hiring process.

Regarding previous counsel by one poster that one might be unwise to disclose a letter of warning in an interview, do so at your own peril. If an employer asks if you have ever received a violation, letter of warning, etc, then you had better admit it up front. Having been asked and having denied the fact may be a firing offense later when it's discovered that yes, you did have such an administrative action.

Far better before ever getting to that point, when one may be the subject of an investigation or enforcement action, SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL.

Those here telling you not to do so are FAA employees. You really ought not find yourself about to be interviewed by the police, and believe them when they say "only the guilty need a lawyer. You're not guilty are you?" These are the wrong people to be seeking counsel regarding any regulatory matter, and especially regarding seeking legal counsel.

They're also the ones least affected when you become the subject of enforcement action. JNB (et al) suffers a minor inconvenience while doing the job he's paid to do. In other words, pursuing enforcement action is part of his job. As a career pilot, it may be the end of your job. It may affect you for many years to come, and even if it delays your career a few years, that's a few years off the top end at your most senior wages, which could cost you a great deal of money.

 

That's because you authorized your employer to FOIA your records, not just get a PRIA report. There's a difference. An air carrier complying with the PRIA requirements does not have to FOIA your records. Some do, some do not. I called AFS-760 a few months back and asked about this. Some regionals do, some do not. Some majors do, some do not.

Really, when you are talking about Freedom of Information Act, everything is off the table. You were making the point earlier about it being PRIA. It's not, it's FOIA, but you could FOIA all kinds of stuff on any individual, maybe late taxes, maybe other infractions, zoning violations, etc. I don't think pilots really realize the difference between the two, which is why I recommend reading the advisory circular carefully.

And John, you are absolutely correct about using a lawyer, I know myself when I would use one and when I wouldn't. I know I wouldn't use one for everything. Having a much clearer understanding of the processes involved, I may have a big advantage in that case, but none of the information is confidential either. It's not an "inconvenience" if someone gets a lawyer, because all we do is gather information. Even fellow inspectors say they wish pilots were at some point taught more about all of this, so it wouldn't be a mystery or surprising, but the information is out there too.

Heck, I even give the lawyers props (or blades). Most of the time, they are completely reasonable. They know the limits of what they can and can't do, or where they can and can't work within the process. If they realize that a guy did something and it would be best just to say what you did and move on, they'll recommend just that. As someone that is "for hire", they'll do what the client wants for the most part, but they'll make recommendations that are usually based in reality, the rules/regulations and what they think they can or can not prove. If there's a mitigating factor, they'll usually make sure it's brought up.

 

I said nothing about FOIA requests, but you did. I wasn't talking about them. You were.

The value in the attorney isn't getting the attorney to go to the FAA and fix everything. It's in getting good counsel before doing or saying something stupid.

The best counsel that one gets from the attorney may often be what to not say and when not to say it. When something does need to be said, one is often best to let the attorney say it.

A good example is that letter of investigation and the offer to allow the recipient to respond. DON'T. Not until you've spoken with your attorney. When called to go meet, that's a very good time to have counsel.

In fact, as early as you can in the process, is a good time to seek counsel.

 

I know, because you don't understand why or how your employer got all your pilot records. That's not PRIA, but you said it was. I can quote it if you like? I've held he PRIA letters in my hand, there's no place for them to mention warning letters.

 

I generally agree with JNB, FAA admin law is not criminal law (or even civil law) and there can be times when there's no need for a lawyer.

But if you're a pro pilot (especially if you're not already at your career-destination job) I would err on the conservative side and at least consult a lawyer in most cases before talking to a fed. Once suitably advised, you can then try the direct and open approach with the FAA if you like.

 

I've processed the PRIA requests for new hires, and in every case when I am the subject, I get copies (as everyone should). As stated, I've seen it show up.

At no time in that process did I file a FOIA request for additional information.

 

It sounds paranoid to me to lawyer up over a minor infraction where guilt is a fact and all that's coming is a warning letter. The FAA is not a bunch of hooligans. The PRIA issue is irrelevant. Perhaps twenty years of future dealings will change my mind, but ten years thus far has not. I am opposed to the idea that one can pay their way out of what they deserve by paying lawyers to clean up the past, and if deceiving future employers is the order of the day we have to ask what sort of job would require it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by you "processed" PRIA requests. If you look at the AC, it is required to submit form 8060-10, this returns a form that summarizes your accidents, violations and limitations/certificates. This does not include any administrative action. This is required by regulations for all air carriers. I've seen this form myself many times with my own eyes, it does not include any administrative action.

If you "processed" form AC 8060-72, this is not required for air carriers and it says very clearly on it, it's a FOIA request, maybe that's where you are confused. This returns a whole load of information, every 8710, every checkride, everything ever turned in to airman records.