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Name User 01-16-2020 10:34 AM

Today on CNBC


Airbus releases photos of automatic take-offs

David ReidPublished Thu, Jan 16 202010:05 AM EST

Airbus looks to have taken pilotless commercial jet flight one step closer after revealing that one of its test aircraft has taken off automatically.

The European planemaker said that in tests conducted at Toulouse-Blagnac airport on December 18, an A350-1000 with two pilots sitting ready to take over, conducted eight takeoffs on auto-pilot.

Accompanying the press release was a photograph showing a pilot sitting with one hand at rest as the plane pitched up.

“We moved the throttle levers to the take-off setting and we monitored the aircraft. It started to move and accelerate automatically maintaining the runway center line, at the exact rotation speed as entered in the system. The nose of the aircraft began to lift up automatically to take the expected take-off pitch value and a few seconds later we were airborne,” said Airbus Test Pilot Captain Yann Beaufils.

The technology behind the takeoff is different from the Instrument Landing System (ILS) currently used around the world, Airbus said in its press release Thursday. Instead, the company said the automatic takeoff was made possible by image recognition technology installed directly on the aircraft.

The company says the next step is automatic vision-based landing and taxi sequences taking place by mid-2020.

March to automation

Airbus says that auto pilot takeoff is an important milestone for its Autonomous Taxi, Take-Off & Landing (ATTOL) project — one of several that Airbus is conducting on aviation autonomy.

Two crashes involving the Boeing 737 Max in late 2018 and early last year have raised questions about automation in flight. However, Airbus appears determined to take it to the next level.

Pilot shortages and airline operators that are keen to reduce costs have led to planemakers investigating greater levels of automation.

Swiss bank UBS has estimated that a pilot is typically in full control of a jet plane for an average of just 7 minutes on each flight. It has also claimed that single-pilot commercial and cargo planes could take to the skies within the next five years.

The bank claimed transition to one operating pilot would lead to a cost-saving opportunity for the commercial jet industry of at least $15 billion in annual pilot, training, fuel and insurance costs.

But one 2017 survey by UBS found that 63% of people oppose flying in a pilotless aircraft.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/airb...take-offs.html

https://youtu.be/Z1AzomN0KjU


I recently talked to an FAA guy familiar with the pilotless certification process in DC. Said the FAA wants either two pilots or zero pilots. There probably won't be a step to just a single pilot.

mainlineAF 01-16-2020 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2958134)
Today on CNBC







https://youtu.be/Z1AzomN0KjU





I recently talked to an FAA guy familiar with the pilotless certification process in DC. Said the FAA wants either two pilots or zero pilots. There probably won't be a step to just a single pilot.



And what was their feeling on if going straight to zero was viable?

Name User 01-16-2020 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by mainlineAF (Post 2958174)
And what was their feeling on if going straight to zero was viable?

It was a fairly limited conversation as he was riding to work. We first started with a conversation about the current state of autonomy. He visited several of the tech companies so was somewhat familiar with where they are right now.

The thing that really stuck out was how far the FAA is taking the current regs. Example, random drug tests...the tech companies don't like that because they find it stifles their ability to get talent. I'm thinking...drug testing for a 135 drone operation? But they are sticking to it for now.

So that gives you an idea of the FAA's mindset.

I tried to push a little more into autonomous aircraft at this level. His thought, and again this is just his opinion, was within 20-30 years. But all of that is opinion. Nothing factual to back it up. He wasn't that high up in the FAA. But DC does have a special group tasked with working on it.

When you look at automation this (auto takeoff) is just the natural progression in things. It actually makes sense as it is by far one of the most dangerous events. It will allow both (or single) pilots to focus completely on the decision process.

When ATC goes completely automated is when (I believe) autonomous airliners are right around the corner, and we will see the beginning of the end for piloted aircraft. I think as long as we have ATC controlling aircraft directly, we are safe.

But, even that is evolving. https://www.discovermagazine.com/tec...ing-completion

One thing to keep in mind is in order to have worldwide ability, you're going to need to have the same software pretty much running everywhere. From the Caribbean islands to Europe, Asia, North and South America. This will be a large undertaking.

It mind end up that the automation will first take over the dispatcher and ATC jobs. Pilots will be tasked with dispatching their own flights, and ensuring aircraft comply and stay safe while operating under automated ATC instructions. We could be the last to lose our jobs...or the first.

mainlineAF 01-16-2020 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2958231)
It was a fairly limited conversation as he was riding to work. We first started with a conversation about the current state of autonomy. He visited several of the tech companies so was somewhat familiar with where they are right now.



The thing that really stuck out was how far the FAA is taking the current regs. Example, random drug tests...the tech companies don't like that because they find it stifles their ability to get talent. I'm thinking...drug testing for a 135 drone operation? But they are sticking to it for now.



So that gives you an idea of the FAA's mindset.



I tried to push a little more into autonomous aircraft at this level. His thought, and again this is just his opinion, was within 20-30 years. But all of that is opinion. Nothing factual to back it up. He wasn't that high up in the FAA. But DC does have a special group tasked with working on it.



When you look at automation this (auto takeoff) is just the natural progression in things. It actually makes sense as it is by far one of the most dangerous events. It will allow both (or single) pilots to focus completely on the decision process.



When ATC goes completely automated is when (I believe) autonomous airliners are right around the corner, and we will see the beginning of the end for piloted aircraft. I think as long as we have ATC controlling aircraft directly, we are safe.



But, even that is evolving. https://www.discovermagazine.com/tec...ing-completion



One thing to keep in mind is in order to have worldwide ability, you're going to need to have the same software pretty much running everywhere. From the Caribbean islands to Europe, Asia, North and South America. This will be a large undertaking.



It mind end up that the automation will first take over the dispatcher and ATC jobs. Pilots will be tasked with dispatching their own flights, and ensuring aircraft comply and stay safe while operating under automated ATC instructions. We could be the last to lose our jobs...or the first.



Good stuff, thx. The up, down, left, right stuff being automated doesn’t bother me. We’ve had autolands since the 70s or so.

We are there for our decision making. I personally just don’t see how that can be automated.

rickair7777 01-16-2020 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2958134)
Today on CNBC



https://youtu.be/Z1AzomN0KjU


I recently talked to an FAA guy familiar with the pilotless certification process in DC. Said the FAA wants either two pilots or zero pilots. There probably won't be a step to just a single pilot.

That's what I've said all along. Single pilot airliners need FULL certifiable redundancy for zero pilot ops since incapacitation happens several times each year in the US alone.

They might well need to fly a fully automated airliner with one or two safety pilots for a very long time before turning them loose... especially if they use any sort of non-deterministic AI.

rickair7777 01-16-2020 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by mainlineAF (Post 2958283)
Good stuff, thx. The up, down, left, right stuff being automated doesn’t bother me. We’ve had autolands since the 70s or so.

We are there for our decision making. I personally just don’t see how that can be automated.

It cannot. True AI does not exist, and nobody knows how to make it (or if it would be a good idea to do so).

What it comes down to to is how much will cost to add enough redundancy and backups to keep the plane "on the script". Right now it would obviously cost more than pilots. Also dispatch reliability will be huuuuge factor.

Bigapplepilot 01-16-2020 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2958134)
Today on CNBC



https://youtu.be/Z1AzomN0KjU


I recently talked to an FAA guy familiar with the pilotless certification process in DC. Said the FAA wants either two pilots or zero pilots. There probably won't be a step to just a single pilot.

What does the ‘hand at rest’ in the photo mean? His left hand is on the stick, his right hand is at rest. That’s how every takeoff is done.

Name User 01-17-2020 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by Bigapplepilot (Post 2958499)
What does the ‘hand at rest’ in the photo mean? His left hand is on the stick, his right hand is at rest. That’s how every takeoff is done.

Don't overthink it. The airplane tracked centerline and rotated by itself.

They also are working on training the AI to fly visual approaches with nothing but a camera. No ILS needed.

Name User 01-17-2020 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by mainlineAF (Post 2958283)
Good stuff, thx. The up, down, left, right stuff being automated doesn’t bother me. We’ve had autolands since the 70s or so.

We are there for our decision making. I personally just don’t see how that can be automated.

So there is definitely some decision making happening on a flight. It's the one off scenarios that are wildcards. You have been a CA for a while you know exactly what I mean. Most are human factors things, some are weather related, some maintenance related.

As of now, google's plan for anything unexpected is for the UAS vehicles to return to their "hive" (ie RTB). Not really a great option for commercial aircraft. So this stuff, even at the bleeding edge, isn't quite there yet. I'd actually argue Garmin's big red auto land button is more advanced as it takes a look at weather, terrain, etc selects an approach, flies it, and communicates over 121.50 with synthetic voice. That is the one that gave me pause. It makes sense, the stuff is easily done from a big picture viewpoint.

I would hope that sort of thing starts being implemented into our FD pro app. Especially for overwater operations with limited diversion options, we really need a way to instantly view weather at company specific diversion airports. Grabbing weather and keeping track of it while on the tracks is quite tedious IMO. Bringing the two together will be a good use of that technology for manned operations.

Bigapplepilot 01-17-2020 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2958905)
Don't overthink it. The airplane tracked centerline and rotated by itself.

They also are working on training the AI to fly visual approaches with nothing but a camera. No ILS needed.

I agree. But the article says Airbus released that photo to show his hand at rest. The author must have interpreted the photo that way. Airbus pointing it out makes no sense. Someone even drew a circle around the test pilots hand lol.


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