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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2958290)
That's what I've said all along. Single pilot airliners need FULL certifiable redundancy for zero pilot ops since incapacitation happens several times each year in the US alone.
They might well need to fly a fully automated airliner with one or two safety pilots for a very long time before turning them loose... especially if they use any sort of non-deterministic AI. "As you reduce the number of pilots in the loop it means that in case of failure you need to implement some kind of recovery scenario. So either you install some form of intelligence facility onto the aircraft where, when you press a button, the aircraft can self-navigate the aircraft safely to an airport alone — or, we design and develop a solution where you can take over control from the ground. In Clean Sky, we are concentrating our effort on the 1st part." says Clean Sky's Dubois. The A350 will auto descend on autopilot if it detects a cabin depressurization. https://www.aerospacetestinginternat...-a350-xwb.html |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2959536)
This is Airbus's approach, similar to the Garmin one in their new avionics suite for the Cirrus jet:
https://www.cleansky.eu/european-avi...enger-aircraft The A350 will auto descend on autopilot if it detects a cabin depressurization. https://www.aerospacetestinginternat...-a350-xwb.html That kind of stuff is no-brainer easy and has been technically feasible since the 1960's or so (but the computers would have been heavy back then). It's great as a last-ditch save for single-pilot GA aircraft which would otherwise crash if the pilot is incap. It in no way comes anywhere near the current safety standards for airliners. |
So how does this plane land in LGA when they are using RWY 4 and Prez is in town with GPS jamming active.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2959671)
That kind of stuff is no-brainer easy and has been technically feasible since the 1960's or so (but the computers would have been heavy back then).
It's great as a last-ditch save for single-pilot GA aircraft which would otherwise crash if the pilot is incap. It in no way comes anywhere near the current safety standards for airliners. I do agree that if that is their plan for single pilot ops I doubt the administrators will approve it but it's interesting nonetheless. But Boeing and Airbus have publicly stayed they will be ready for single pilot in 3-4 years. Maybe they plan to use datalink services...I dunno. Before the MAX issue they trusted pilots...they have had a complete revision in thinking afterwards. Remember they had said the 797 would be two pilot. Now the opposite. They have completely shifted their mentality towards operating aircraft from "pilot first" to "pilot optional". I think they saw just how bad the pilots screwed up (leaving thrust set at t/o while exceeding Vmo) and finally realized the Airbus way is better and safer. Perusing through Aviation Herald you see lots of incidents that are caused by human error that don't result in fatalities (but could have). I would think over time they will take steps to increase automation to slowly trap all those errors. |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960476)
No, it has not been possible to push a button and have an aircraft obtain weather for all available airports within calculated range, assess terrain based on position, pull from an electronic database of approaches, execute them, communicate intentions over 121.50 via voice, land, come to a stop, shut off the engine, and open the doors since the 60's.
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960476)
I do agree that if that is their plan for single pilot ops I doubt the administrators will approve it but it's interesting nonetheless. But Boeing and Airbus have publicly stayed they will be ready for single pilot in 3-4 years.
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960476)
Before the MAX issue they trusted pilots...they have had a complete revision in thinking afterwards. Remember they had said the 797 would be two pilot. Now the opposite. They have completely shifted their mentality towards operating aircraft from "pilot first" to "pilot optional". I think they saw just how bad the pilots screwed up (leaving thrust set at t/o while exceeding Vmo) and finally realized the Airbus way is better and safer.
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960476)
Perusing through Aviation Herald you see lots of incidents that are caused by human error that don't result in fatalities (but could have). I would think over time they will take steps to increase automation to slowly trap all those errors.
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Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960476)
No, it has not been possible to push a button and have an aircraft obtain weather for all available airports within calculated range, assess terrain based on position, pull from an electronic database of approaches, execute them, communicate intentions over 121.50 via voice, land, come to a stop, shut off the engine, and open the doors since the 60's.
I do agree that if that is their plan for single pilot ops I doubt the administrators will approve it but it's interesting nonetheless. But Boeing and Airbus have publicly stayed they will be ready for single pilot in 3-4 years. Maybe they plan to use datalink services...I dunno. Before the MAX issue they trusted pilots...they have had a complete revision in thinking afterwards. Remember they had said the 797 would be two pilot. Now the opposite. They have completely shifted their mentality towards operating aircraft from "pilot first" to "pilot optional". I think they saw just how bad the pilots screwed up (leaving thrust set at t/o while exceeding Vmo) and finally realized the Airbus way is better and safer. Perusing through Aviation Herald you see lots of incidents that are caused by human error that don't result in fatalities (but could have). I would think over time they will take steps to increase automation to slowly trap all those errors. |
Originally Posted by Bigapplepilot
(Post 2960684)
Do you have a link showing that the 797 is being designed single pilot? I googled ‘797 pilot’ and embedded in all the ‘single pilot’ headlines is Boeing stating that the next design is for 2 pilots.
Hopefully this link will work for you https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ht-11577816304 |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2960564)
Remember it's not going to change ticket prices because they guy they get rid of will be the FO.
Additional automation to help trap errors is entirely plausible... that kind of thing *could* evolve into reduced crew complements, but only many, many years of operational experience and evolution. On a day trip to a Caribbean turn @ eight hours pay, removing me would have the same effect as reducing fuel burn by roughly 25%. It would lower average ticket prices by $40 round trip. Or it would enable, assuming they are the first carrier to go single pilot, an additional $4000 profit round trip (ie ticket prices stay the same). Now, you have a point that if all aircraft are SP, then profit would be roughly the same for all carriers. But the savings will go to the consumer. |
Originally Posted by Name User
(Post 2960777)
So as a quick example you divide my pay for 2019 into my flying time, adding 10% for company payroll taxes, another $10k for their medical, and you get around $500/hr. I'm an FO.
On a day trip to a Caribbean turn @ eight hours pay, removing me would have the same effect as reducing fuel burn by roughly 25%. It would lower average ticket prices by $40 round trip. Or it would enable, assuming they are the first carrier to go single pilot, an additional $4000 profit round trip (ie ticket prices stay the same). Now, you have a point that if all aircraft are SP, then profit would be roughly the same for all carriers. But the savings will go to the consumer. Imagine how much money hospitals could make it they didn’t have to pay doctors!! |
Originally Posted by mainlineAF
(Post 2960784)
Imagine how much money hospitals could make it they didn’t have to pay doctors!!
https://www.radiologybusiness.com/to...r-radiologists |
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