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-   -   Two Pilot Long Haul Ops? Airbus & Cathay (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/aviation-technology/134127-two-pilot-long-haul-ops-airbus-cathay.html)

ZeroTT 06-17-2021 06:26 AM

Look at the history of airline labor purchasing behavior. They will push for this. First spot will be four crew to three. And cargo. It’ll take a few years to sort it out. Single pilot ops is the straw-man monster. 2.75 pilot ops is the problem. If the airlines can turn a “2 hours too long for two-crew” into a two-hours of single pilot cruise… that’s a win

highfarfast 06-17-2021 06:27 AM

If you give much thought to it at all, you'll come to realize if you need one pilot, you need two. I don't see single pilot ops ever being a thing in transport category aircraft.

That said, I do think technology will get to a point where no pilot is required. I'm certain I'll at least be retired (if not dead) by the time the tech arrives and all the FAA red tape is done so I don't lose any sleep over it.

labbats 06-17-2021 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3251164)
If you give much thought to it at all, you'll come to realize if you need one pilot, you need two. I don't see single pilot ops ever being a thing in transport category aircraft.

That said, I do think technology will get to a point where no pilot is required. I'm certain I'll at least be retired (if not dead) by the time the tech arrives and all the FAA red tape is done so I don't lose any sleep over it.

Agree 100%

Also we are all forgetting that the flying public will have zero interest in being a passenger with no pilots.

Qotsaautopilot 06-17-2021 07:34 AM

Single pilot tosses out decades of what we know about CRM.

No pilots is a cyber security issue. Half of our nation’s infrastructure is getting hacked daily. With the weaponization of airplanes the risk of a hack is far too high. There is no scenario in this generation where they get the hacking problem solved. In fact it’s only going to get worse.

Halon1211 06-17-2021 07:50 AM

Here are two real questions you must ask yourself.

Will pilots be willing to sign an LOA ... For let’s say 40 to 50% reduction in pay and maybe some retirement in exchange for another guarantee 10 years of employment.

OR...

another question we could ask pilots at every airline. are you ready for “Doomsday action”. The day one airline tries to bring that (type of plane)onto their fleet...Is every unionized pilot ready to walk out on an illegal strike to save our entire industry...yes... that means every pilot.

bringing in new type of airplane takes years to fulfill your fleet. go on strike and shut down the entire flying across the nation you’re going to have lots of leverage.


All this assuming you are the type thinking it gets to that point

What say you?

GrumpyCaptain 06-17-2021 10:55 AM

Do the math, pilot pay is a rounding error in the cost of running an airline.

rickair7777 06-17-2021 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3251188)
Here are two real questions you must ask yourself.

Will pilots be willing to sign an LOA ... For let’s say 40 to 50% reduction in pay and maybe some retirement in exchange for another guarantee 10 years of employment.

OR...

another question we could ask pilots at every airline. are you ready for “Doomsday action”. The day one airline tries to bring that (type of plane)onto their fleet...Is every unionized pilot ready to walk out on an illegal strike to save our entire industry...yes... that means every pilot.

bringing in new type of airplane takes years to fulfill your fleet. go on strike and shut down the entire flying across the nation you’re going to have lots of leverage.


All this assuming you are the type thinking it gets to that point

What say you?

The airlines would have to dramatically incentivize pilot retention due to the very long ROI timeline once you commit to training and dues-paying.

Otherwise the pilot supply pipeline would stop instantly as soon as anyone makes a plausible move to develop an unmanned airliner. Even a single-pilot airliner would have a chilling effect on training starts. So there would be this "valley of death", about a couple decades long, where airlines would have to somehow incentivize people to take the plunge and remain at the wheel (instead of pursuing new careers). EVERYBODY from PPL up knows that this is a long game for pilots. Airlines would probably have to guarantee a long period of employment and/or a great severance package to get anyone to sign up, and to retain the younger folks. Probably a generous retirement or huge lump sum, with eligibility at age 65 or when displaced by automation, sooner of the two.

Turbosina 06-17-2021 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3251004)
Yes, bit adding in the sensor data acquisition, processing, and decision making to recognize the problem is not trivial. It's certainly doable but again will take time and money.

Garmin recently certified a full auto-descent and auto-land system on the Piper M600 single-engine turbine. I flew one not long ago. Press just one button and the aircraft will descend from the flight levels, avoid traffic, avoid weather to the extent possible, broadcast automated messages to ATC, and land itself at the nearest suitable airport, taking into account things like weather, runway length, and so on It's astonishingly good.

​​​​​​Systems like these won't replace pilots, but they certainly make it a lot easier for the sort of ops Cathay is considering to be approved/ certified.

Kinda spooky actually, watching the SLS (Piper's name for the system) do its thing.

BeechedJet 06-17-2021 03:33 PM

So question, who has right of way at an uncontrolled field? The auto-Piper or the Debonair flown by the 74 year old man wearing an “I’d rather be FLYING” hat?

Duckdude 06-17-2021 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by BeechedJet (Post 3251407)
So question, who has right of way at an uncontrolled field? The auto-Piper or the Debonair flown by the 74 year old man wearing an “I’d rather be FLYING” hat?

I’d normally say the aircraft with the disabled pilot, squawking 7700, and making automated distress calls on CTAF has the right of way. But perhaps the hat worn by the Debonair pilot changes things?


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