Firefighter to Airline Pilot
02-19-2017, 01:59 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 25
Firefighter to Airline Pilot
Howdy from Texas. A little background --- just turned 23. I was hired with a FD right out of high school where I've been working for the last 5 years. I'm looking to make the switch to become an airline pilot.
I'm in DFW where Envoy/American are at. I've been reading up on Envoy's Cadet Program and it sounds great (namely the flow to American). I've got zero flight time...these are some of the options I've thought about:
#1 - ATP Flight School - I've got about $60k in savings right now I could use towards the program. I'd still have to get a small loan (about $20k) to pay for the rest. I'd also have to quit my fire job. I like this idea because it's so fast and they have a 'guaranteed' CFI job and an agreement with Envoy for their Cadet Program. The thing that scares me about this route is the fact I'll be quitting my career job. I also worry about the quality of the instruction with it being so fast paced.
#2 - Work/School - Continue to work as a firefighter. I only work 10 days a month (24 on, 48 off) which leaves 20 completely free days I could use to get my PPL/instrument/multi-engine/commercial/CFIs. I like this because I'll still have money coming in (I make about $80k/yr now) that I can use to help pay for the expensive cost of flight training. I can pay as I go for these certs and finish with no debt. The downsides I see are it taking longer than going through ATP which leads me to some questions:
With 20 completely free days a month where I could be completely devoted to flying, how long would it realistically take to get all the above certs? Is it possible to pretty much go to flight school "full-time" on my off days and finish in about the same time as ATP Flight School's program?
How important is going to a flight school that has a relationship with a regional? There's two flight schools here that have agreements with Envoy for their Cadet Program which I'm highly interested in. But if I go to a flight school that doesn't have an agreement, is it still likely to get hired by Envoy as long as you have 1500hrs or do you have to be a more "competitive" applicant?
Being 23, should I lean towards ATP because it's so fast? I feel like I'm "behind" compared to people who are 22 and graduating with their bachelor's and licenses. I've got an associate's degree and plan on starting an online BA program immediately which I should have before I even have 1500 hours (not that Envoy requires it).
How hard is it to get accepted into Envoy's Cadet Program? Their website says to expect to upgrade to a Captain in 2 yrs and flow to American in about 6. Are these realistic numbers?
Any thoughts/advice appreciated. Thanks ladies and gents.
I'm in DFW where Envoy/American are at. I've been reading up on Envoy's Cadet Program and it sounds great (namely the flow to American). I've got zero flight time...these are some of the options I've thought about:
#1 - ATP Flight School - I've got about $60k in savings right now I could use towards the program. I'd still have to get a small loan (about $20k) to pay for the rest. I'd also have to quit my fire job. I like this idea because it's so fast and they have a 'guaranteed' CFI job and an agreement with Envoy for their Cadet Program. The thing that scares me about this route is the fact I'll be quitting my career job. I also worry about the quality of the instruction with it being so fast paced.
#2 - Work/School - Continue to work as a firefighter. I only work 10 days a month (24 on, 48 off) which leaves 20 completely free days I could use to get my PPL/instrument/multi-engine/commercial/CFIs. I like this because I'll still have money coming in (I make about $80k/yr now) that I can use to help pay for the expensive cost of flight training. I can pay as I go for these certs and finish with no debt. The downsides I see are it taking longer than going through ATP which leads me to some questions:
With 20 completely free days a month where I could be completely devoted to flying, how long would it realistically take to get all the above certs? Is it possible to pretty much go to flight school "full-time" on my off days and finish in about the same time as ATP Flight School's program?
How important is going to a flight school that has a relationship with a regional? There's two flight schools here that have agreements with Envoy for their Cadet Program which I'm highly interested in. But if I go to a flight school that doesn't have an agreement, is it still likely to get hired by Envoy as long as you have 1500hrs or do you have to be a more "competitive" applicant?
Being 23, should I lean towards ATP because it's so fast? I feel like I'm "behind" compared to people who are 22 and graduating with their bachelor's and licenses. I've got an associate's degree and plan on starting an online BA program immediately which I should have before I even have 1500 hours (not that Envoy requires it).
How hard is it to get accepted into Envoy's Cadet Program? Their website says to expect to upgrade to a Captain in 2 yrs and flow to American in about 6. Are these realistic numbers?
Any thoughts/advice appreciated. Thanks ladies and gents.
02-19-2017, 02:15 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,803
20 days off doesn't matter, what matters is how fast you can internalize the lessons and repeat the tasks. Trust me, any CFI will fly as often as your checkbook will allow, but that may not be in your best interest. It's a rare student who can get everything the first time in an accelerated course without repeats. It's those repeats that will eat your budget alive.
That said, I wouldn't start flight training until there's more clarity on NAI and ME3. It appears that the new white house is going to uphold the US market giveaway to foreign airlines. It's too early to tell, but there's a strong chance that US pilot job growth will be in decline as a result of open skies relaxation.
That said, I wouldn't start flight training until there's more clarity on NAI and ME3. It appears that the new white house is going to uphold the US market giveaway to foreign airlines. It's too early to tell, but there's a strong chance that US pilot job growth will be in decline as a result of open skies relaxation.
02-19-2017, 02:33 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 707
Originally Posted by FullyInvolved
Howdy from Texas. A little background --- just turned 23. I was hired with a FD right out of high school where I've been working for the last 5 years. I'm looking to make the switch to become an airline pilot.
I'm in DFW where Envoy/American are at. I've been reading up on Envoy's Cadet Program and it sounds great (namely the flow to American). I've got zero flight time...these are some of the options I've thought about:
#1 - ATP Flight School - I've got about $60k in savings right now I could use towards the program. I'd still have to get a small loan (about $20k) to pay for the rest. I'd also have to quit my fire job. I like this idea because it's so fast and they have a 'guaranteed' CFI job and an agreement with Envoy for their Cadet Program. The thing that scares me about this route is the fact I'll be quitting my career job. I also worry about the quality of the instruction with it being so fast paced.
#2 - Work/School - Continue to work as a firefighter. I only work 10 days a month (24 on, 48 off) which leaves 20 completely free days I could use to get my PPL/instrument/multi-engine/commercial/CFIs. I like this because I'll still have money coming in (I make about $80k/yr now) that I can use to help pay for the expensive cost of flight training. I can pay as I go for these certs and finish with no debt. The downsides I see are it taking longer than going through ATP which leads me to some questions:
With 20 completely free days a month where I could be completely devoted to flying, how long would it realistically take to get all the above certs? Is it possible to pretty much go to flight school "full-time" on my off days and finish in about the same time as ATP Flight School's program?
How important is going to a flight school that has a relationship with a regional? There's two flight schools here that have agreements with Envoy for their Cadet Program which I'm highly interested in. But if I go to a flight school that doesn't have an agreement, is it still likely to get hired by Envoy as long as you have 1500hrs or do you have to be a more "competitive" applicant?
Being 23, should I lean towards ATP because it's so fast? I feel like I'm "behind" compared to people who are 22 and graduating with their bachelor's and licenses. I've got an associate's degree and plan on starting an online BA program immediately which I should have before I even have 1500 hours (not that Envoy requires it).
How hard is it to get accepted into Envoy's Cadet Program? Their website says to expect to upgrade to a Captain in 2 yrs and flow to American in about 6. Are these realistic numbers?
Any thoughts/advice appreciated. Thanks ladies and gents.
I'm in DFW where Envoy/American are at. I've been reading up on Envoy's Cadet Program and it sounds great (namely the flow to American). I've got zero flight time...these are some of the options I've thought about:
#1 - ATP Flight School - I've got about $60k in savings right now I could use towards the program. I'd still have to get a small loan (about $20k) to pay for the rest. I'd also have to quit my fire job. I like this idea because it's so fast and they have a 'guaranteed' CFI job and an agreement with Envoy for their Cadet Program. The thing that scares me about this route is the fact I'll be quitting my career job. I also worry about the quality of the instruction with it being so fast paced.
#2 - Work/School - Continue to work as a firefighter. I only work 10 days a month (24 on, 48 off) which leaves 20 completely free days I could use to get my PPL/instrument/multi-engine/commercial/CFIs. I like this because I'll still have money coming in (I make about $80k/yr now) that I can use to help pay for the expensive cost of flight training. I can pay as I go for these certs and finish with no debt. The downsides I see are it taking longer than going through ATP which leads me to some questions:
With 20 completely free days a month where I could be completely devoted to flying, how long would it realistically take to get all the above certs? Is it possible to pretty much go to flight school "full-time" on my off days and finish in about the same time as ATP Flight School's program?
How important is going to a flight school that has a relationship with a regional? There's two flight schools here that have agreements with Envoy for their Cadet Program which I'm highly interested in. But if I go to a flight school that doesn't have an agreement, is it still likely to get hired by Envoy as long as you have 1500hrs or do you have to be a more "competitive" applicant?
Being 23, should I lean towards ATP because it's so fast? I feel like I'm "behind" compared to people who are 22 and graduating with their bachelor's and licenses. I've got an associate's degree and plan on starting an online BA program immediately which I should have before I even have 1500 hours (not that Envoy requires it).
How hard is it to get accepted into Envoy's Cadet Program? Their website says to expect to upgrade to a Captain in 2 yrs and flow to American in about 6. Are these realistic numbers?
Any thoughts/advice appreciated. Thanks ladies and gents.
02-19-2017, 02:39 PM
#4
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
JetBlue also has a zero to hero program: JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs
While the degree will do nothing to help you be a better pilot, it should be considered a mandatory prerequisite, don't let it fall by the wayside as you try and get your hours. Keep your driving and criminal records clean, get your degree, get your hours, and with any luck the hiring wave will still be going strong in the time it takes you to get your ducks in a row.
I would not follow awax' advice. Don't get me wrong, I think starting an aviation career now might be too late but I certainly can't know with certainty. His point that you should wait for the ME3 and NAI to resolve themselves would put you into an eternal waiting cycle. There's always an existential threat to the industry and if you wait for all the threats to be alleviated you'll be a 65 year old fireman waiting for that perfect time to start your flying career.
While the degree will do nothing to help you be a better pilot, it should be considered a mandatory prerequisite, don't let it fall by the wayside as you try and get your hours. Keep your driving and criminal records clean, get your degree, get your hours, and with any luck the hiring wave will still be going strong in the time it takes you to get your ducks in a row.
I would not follow awax' advice. Don't get me wrong, I think starting an aviation career now might be too late but I certainly can't know with certainty. His point that you should wait for the ME3 and NAI to resolve themselves would put you into an eternal waiting cycle. There's always an existential threat to the industry and if you wait for all the threats to be alleviated you'll be a 65 year old fireman waiting for that perfect time to start your flying career.
02-19-2017, 02:56 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Whatever you do please don't quit your firefighting job if you can reasonably accomplish your flying goals and still keep it. I was in a similar situation as you are with a similar paying job - railroad conductor. I however couldn't do both as I didn't get enough time off. If I could have, boy would it have mitigated the risk. Plus if it turns out you don't like being an airline pilot as much, you have your firefighting career. And actually at Frontier we have guys who are BOTH! Full time! Course I think they are very senior.
02-19-2017, 02:58 PM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Theres never been a better time to become a pilot, although I question why you would walk away from a career where you can retire early with pension.
NAI, I wouldn't worry about that, and ATP will get you your ratings quickly, maybe too quickly. Still will need a few years to get to 1500. Its a long road, but certainly not too late to have a career. Everything changes, you just need to be able to adapt.
NAI, I wouldn't worry about that, and ATP will get you your ratings quickly, maybe too quickly. Still will need a few years to get to 1500. Its a long road, but certainly not too late to have a career. Everything changes, you just need to be able to adapt.
02-19-2017, 03:14 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 198
Don't worry about NAI or ME3. Follow your dreams! There will be plenty of corporate, part 135, regional and major jobs available for the next 20 years. Heck, fly for a police dept or look up Global Supertanker!
Do not quit your FD job. Find the best cfi in your area and start taking lessons ASAP. Study for your written and oral online. Start immediately. ...There are plenty of high quality courses available.
Heck think about buying your own IFR 172 and do your private and instrument in it. Build time in it.
Also while building time, get your single engine sea and glider ratings. Your going to have to build time, you might as well have fun doing it.
It's a fun career, don't let anyone talk you out of your dreams!
Do not quit your FD job. Find the best cfi in your area and start taking lessons ASAP. Study for your written and oral online. Start immediately. ...There are plenty of high quality courses available.
Heck think about buying your own IFR 172 and do your private and instrument in it. Build time in it.
Also while building time, get your single engine sea and glider ratings. Your going to have to build time, you might as well have fun doing it.
It's a fun career, don't let anyone talk you out of your dreams!
02-19-2017, 03:45 PM
#8
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,003
Don't quit your day job.
I've spent a lot of years as a firefighter, and a lot of years as a pilot...and a lot of years as both, a firefighting pilot. A lot of years with a really broad background in this business, which means I've seen a lot of success in aviation, and a lot of failures in the industry.
While you're trying to figure out what you do, in an industry that involves a lot of bankruptcies and mergers and failures and furloughs and so on and so on, don't give up your day job. It's worth a lot more than you may think.
I've spent a lot of years as a firefighter, and a lot of years as a pilot...and a lot of years as both, a firefighting pilot. A lot of years with a really broad background in this business, which means I've seen a lot of success in aviation, and a lot of failures in the industry.
While you're trying to figure out what you do, in an industry that involves a lot of bankruptcies and mergers and failures and furloughs and so on and so on, don't give up your day job. It's worth a lot more than you may think.
02-19-2017, 03:54 PM
#9
Ich bin Pilot von Beruf
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: CRJ Kapitän
Posts: 616
I confess that I skimmed through the posts in this thread, but did I read it right that the OP has merely $60k in savings? Please don't waste what you have earned, obtaining your certificates and ratings. Your savings will be gone quickly! Keep your job and fly on the side at your own pace, you will be thankful later.
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