Pilatus801

I am an outsider in the sense that I do not have my commercial license, but i'm working toward it. I wonder why this industry, compared to so many others, has such low pay for skilled employees? Why is it that when you leave one airline to go to another, you start at the very bottom, even though you have years of experience under your belt? Is it the unions that created all of this? Why aren't there free market principals at play? In other words, if true free market principles applied, then a pilot leaving Skywest with 9,000 hours to move to Southwest, he would be seen as a skilled aviator with years of experience and he would receive pay commensurate to his skill level. In reality, he starts at the bottom of the seniority ladder. I don't believe physicians have this kind of problem, nor do lawyers or accountants. So why is this a problem only in aviation?

And, i ask all of this knowing that pay has come up recently. It truly boggles my mind that an FO could have been paid roughly $20k for their first year to fly multi million dollar planes with dozens of souls on board. it truly defies logic.

rickair7777

If it's been "ruined", it was by de-regulation, then 9/11, SARS, oil, and the economic downturn and associated bankruptcies. But it's on the rebound now.

If you're talking about entry-level pilots... both civilian and military entry-level pilots get paid about twice (in real dollars) what they did 20-30 years ago. So if you think it's bad now...

Reality: Much as RAA and FAA would deny it, new regional FO's are interns and paid accordingly. A CFI transitioning to airline ops is hopelessly out of his depth and requires adult supervision. Previously experienced turbine pilots who choose to work for regionals do so for their own reasons.

Fundamentally nobody in aviation really thinks a CFI is worth $100K. Also it's a free market, nobody is going to pay them six figures when they come flocking for $30K, drooling to get their greasy mits on a shiny jet.

Doctors most certainly have this problem when a medical resident makes $30-50K. Lawyers who graduate tops in their class at ivy-league schools get right on with blue chip firms making well over six figures... and working well over 80 hours/week. Lawyers who are not blue chip material make substantially less as public defenders, ambulance chasers, or baristas.

Ultimately doctors and pilots will start low because they're passionate about the job, and passionate about making hundreds of thousands of $ a few years down the road. Other professional skills typically top out in the low mid $100K range, so they are not going to start at $20K and slowly work their way up to $120K.

Is it a scam? Of course... typically only about 30% of commercial pilot students make it to a major airline, perhaps 20% to a legacy. That's historical, odds will be better for the next decade or so.

kevbo

Being a "pilot" still has high social status in our society. This causes oversupply and drives down prices. I know a lawn mower mechanic and several plumbers that make a lot more than mainline captains. No social status there.

galaxy flyer

The issue of pilots moving between companies is entirely due to union contracts and the definition of seniority. If your SKW captain leaves for Southwest, he has a Date of Hire of the lowest seniority pilot, starts at Year 1 pay as a First Officer.

Rickair777,

I’m not so sure about that pay. I started flying a Citation as an F/O for a charter outfit in 1980 for $12,000 per year which an inflation calculator tells me is $35,944 in 2017 money. I had to peel resumes off the plane each morning. That 12 grand was big money for a hard to find job then.

GF

Rama

A lawnmower mechanic that makes over a quarter million?

rickair7777

But that seniority system is of necessity, lesser evil. Could be improved by a national list though.

But legacy new-hire pay at least is trending so most regional CA's don't have to take a huge paycut.


That's closer to 40 years ago. Twenty years ago it was maybe $15K?

I guess it did stay around $19K for quite a while.

kevbo

It takes multiple customers and a few employees, but yea.

JohnBurke

Typically many of those FO's haven't go the experience, chops, or qualifications to merit much more, and they're a dime a dozen. That's why. That, and they sought the path of least resistance that paid the lowest wage.

SonicFlyer

Then he's not a mechanic, he's a business owner. Big difference.

galaxy flyer

Rickair777,

You’re making feel old....but the inflation calculator is correct.

Thirty years ago, I was a 727 wrench making $38,000 so that’s about $82,562 today.

GF