FAA Letter of Investigation
 

A friend received a letter of investigation about 3 years ago. Case was closed with “no action taken”.

According to her, the FAA expunged the record of investigation after 90 days. New employer application asks for a laundry list of things that have ever occurred with the FAA to include ever receiving a LOI. Does she need to put this on the app? She doesn’t think so since it’s been expunged. I say yes since she did receive it and explain that nothing came of it and it’s not on her pria.

In your experience, what direction would you steer her?

1. Get a copy of your FAA record. Use FOIA so you get all of it (minus active investigations IIRC).

2. You can look in the new online pilot records database right now, but be aware that is NOT complete yet so the absence of any particular record is not conclusive yet.

3. If they ask "have you ever" that's what they mean. Whether the paperwork is still readily available is not relevant. If you choose to lie and they find out, you'll be toast. If you're already employed they'll fire you and that WILL show up via PRIA.

Conventional wisdom is don't lie to airlines.

I would disclose it for sure. I’ve seen my fair share of pilots getting pulled out of Indoc class on day 1 or 2 never to be seen again due to failing to disclose things like this.

Be honest. Every time I hear a story about someone not being forthcoming in an interview, they always regret it in the end. Just be upfront, and tell them how you learned from the experience. They aren’t looking for perfection, but integrity is huge. They have ways of finding things in your background that you wouldn’t think they could. My 2 cents.

Tell her to RTFQ. The answer would be yes.


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I agree with all of you and am in full agreement of disclosing everything - especially when it comes to hiring.

Sending her the link to this thread now. Case closed.

Letter of Investigation is exactly what it says it is.
They are investigating if you have possible been in violation of.
Case closed is still case closed.
Acknowledge it.

As a future employer I’d want to know, even for a CFI position.
Would like to know the why.
Because you landed gear up and they decided to let it slide or was it some paperwork glitch when you were a student pilot?
Did you manage do accumulate 9 in the last 3 years maybe you’re not hiring material.

It’s the equivalent of have you ever been convicted for any crime vs have you ever been arrested for any crime question.

I received a LOI about three years ago for failure to report a DUI conviction within 60 days. What happened was I reported it to the aeromedical side but they never sent it to the security division. When I received the letter I immediately called and resolved the problem. The FAA investigator acknowledged it was a error on the agencies part, closed the case. I looked online, called and requested my FAA file and there’s no record what so ever.

Do I need to report this even if the letter was sent in error?

Yes, because you’re going to have to disclose the DUI anyway, and this will allow you to knock out both issues with one story. Since the issue is with the FAA, you shouldn’t worry. Again, if you have to ask yourself “should I disclose”, the answer is YES. They WILL find out if you don’t.

FARs actually require YOU to report it to FAA security. So I don't think you have a good case that the LOI was erroneous. Anyone familiar with the rule would probably agree with me. But it's a common mistake, doubt it would hurt you any more than the dui.

Right but it’s just another box that has to be checked. Another reason for the computer to disregard my apps.

This in particular is what is really flawed with the whole idea of a computer deciding who gets called most of the time, simply based on whether or not they did or didn't check a box.

I have no problem with an actual HUMAN looking at an application, reading the explanation box associated with it, and then deciding not to call said applicant. I also have noooo problem with being asked in an interview, F2F, about skeletons.

Fine.....that's fair. Butttttt to have a computer reject an app, based on a broad and open question, is not cool.

Sure, a lot of yes/no Q's are cut and dried (eg. not having a degree, or 1000 TPIC, etc) and I have no beef with that, but letting a computer solely decide based on that other stuff is wrong, especially with so many nefarious (or worst) 135 operators.

The real issue isnt the dumb computer sorting out what it has to sort, it is the wording of the question.
All those questions should be about actual convictions and not some kind of investigation by the FAA or whatever government agency.

A guy who was involved in a belly landing because the gear didnt come down has to check yes at the 'have you ever .... incident ... accident ... ?' question. If the airline sets up the computer to eliminate all the incident/accident people, well, too bad for you I guess ?

Our justice system is supposedly based on the 'innocent until proven guilty' principle. I wonder what a court would have to say about the way these questions are phrased if EEOC brought that up

Lesser of two evils, either your app gets rejected or you get taken out of class on day two of Indoc.

If the FAA states there’s no LOI in my record and a FOIA shows there is no letter, how would an airline find out?

Many of us who have been around for a while have observed a new-hire being removed from class a week or two into it. It happens. I've seen two personally.

If it does show up somehow do you have a letter from the FAA saying that the LOI was sent in error and that you were never under investigation? You'll need to show that letter to CP as walks you out the front door.

If you're going to risk it, only you can decide what are the odds they'll find out. You're relying on a government bureaucracy to purge your record of confusing docs... the same one that issued they erroneous LOI to begin with?

Also even if you were placed under investigation erroneously, that's not what the question asked, is it? If they find out, that explanation may not get you off the hook.

Also like I said before, anyone familiar with this reg will understand why the FAA sent the LOI in the first place:

61.15 (e) Each person holding a certificate issued under this part shall provide a written report of each motor vehicle action to the FAA, Civil Aviation Security Division (AMC-700), P.O. Box 25810, Oklahoma City, OK 73125, not later than 60 days after the motor vehicle action. The report must include:

Like I saidbefore, it's a fairly honest mistake but technically if you didn't send the letter to the right address, it's a legit investigation.

If you get caught I don't think it will go well, at least there's a big risk it won't. So you have to decide what risk you're willing to take.

I always took the approach that I'd rather still have my old job and no interview than get fired and have no job and a PRIA report-able termination.

What’s an FOIA?


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https://www.foia.gov/

https://www.foia.gov/

It's a law that allows you to ask the goverment what files they have about you

Everybody should do this, you'll get paper copies.

You can and should also check the PRD, but that is NOT accurate yet, it's still in deveopment.

So I’m assuming you request from the FAA on that website? Or are there other agencies you should request from?


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I can 100% guarantee you my LOI is not in there.

I think the FAA has instructions on their website.

Also FBI. FOIA/Privacy Act request.

Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney nor can any advice on here be taken as anything but an uneducated opinion.

Expungement: Physically destroyed. No record remains after an expungement.
Sealed: Record is sealed but retained. Can be accessed only with a court order.

Unless a document is provided by a court or agency after an expungement or sealing that states you may now state said action never happened, then I would advise disclosing it. The FAA is an administrative agency so falls outside of the protections afforded under the criminal justice system. Unless you received a written notice stating that you "may properly reply to a question into the matter that no such record exists", it would be wise to disclose it?

You can conduct a pretty exhaustive background check on yourself, fairly easily. Fingerprints through an FBI channeller will get you the criminal history records. The NDR will provide records of serious driving infractions. A query of each states DMV's will provide a detailed driving record going back 10 years. I'd imagine someone who went to court would remember which state/jurisdiction the court was in, and is able to query those records as well. I have no criminal or driving history, but still conducted a thorough check on myself, overall cost about $100. The agencies aren't perfect and mistakes can be made. I'd prefer any issues or errors not show up on Indoc Day 2.

Maybe in theory.


The reality... the FBI database is NOT a public record, it is a national security database and can contain info such as arrests, in addition to convictions. Because it is for national security, it may not (likely does not) expunge everything. The fed can keep it's own records is certainly not obligated to delete such records just because a state/local jurisdiction did.

Even the state/local jurisdiction expunges something that does not mean that it was done properly, and all duplicate data systems also complied.

Also, once it's a matter of public record, anyone can copy and retain such records for any purpose they like, and there are companies that do that. Laws which might restrict the use of such data will vary wildly by jurisdiction, and airline employers usually keep their HQ's in business-friendly locales. So what you think would be your rights in a blue state may not exist at all if you're apply to an airline with a HQ in TX (as a noob, your employment location will always be company HQ until assigned a base and released to the line).

Because of the multi-state nature of our industry, the involvement of the fed, and the need for national security screening (which has fewer civil-rights restrictions) it's basically very hard to know the definitive answer on this stuff. If it were me, I'd be conservative and probably disclose anything which they ask for.

Be careful getting advice from a local-yokel lawyer, the stock answer he gives you would be correct for a fast-food employee but may put you in a world of hurt. I'd talk to an experienced aviation employment attorney if you really have a significant background issue. For really minor legal issue, if it were me I'd just disclose it, they like honesty... you'd probably gain more credibility for honesty and lesson learned than you'd lose from the incident itself.