Part 121 washout.
 

I just failed training with one of the regionals and busted my checkride. They asked me to resign which I did instead of getting fired. Now I’m wondering is my airline career over or do I still have hope ?

Apply at Mesa.

Lol...I'm not sure if that is intended to be a joke or if you were being serious. Retreads is the industry term I've heard thrown around.

I got off the phone with them and they said they’ll call back today to let me know if they’re interested. Should I be worried?

Only if they say yes. Then you’ll be working for Mesa. :eek:

I kid, I kid...

Hope they take you and you redeem yourself and have a long and successful career.

;)

Don't be in a big rush to cold-call other regionals just. You need to figure out what went wrong, how you can fix that, and equally importantly, how you can articulate to a potential employer that it was learning experience and not a sign of fundamental unsuitability.

I would probably try to some other regionals once you've figured out your way ahead with mesa and go-jet as last resorts.

Worst case maybe you'll need to go get some 135 time and apply to regionals again in your two (with some turbine training sucess under your belt).

Atlas....Atlas/Southern is a last resort. You could probably start training tomorrow there.

I have 0 jet time

How old are you and what are your times?
Are you early 20’s and just woke up with your head up your @ss come checkride day or are you late 50’s and you just can’t learn new sh!t anymore?
I’ve known both.

I’m early 20’s. 1500 hours, also failed my checkride because of a visual approach, never practiced visuals in the sim before. First time doing a visual in a jet was on my checkride

And exactly how did you screw it up?

Just couldn’t do it. Ended up high twice went around then landed on my 3rd try

Go arounds are good decision making. There's more here..... So when you interview be TOTALLY honest, own it and move on. No second try on the check ride? Other lesson failures? Something not adding up. I'm not trying to be negatively critical - I want to help you succeed. If I were interviewing you I would be suspicious.

Well I didn’t check for fuel on the go arounds and landed under reserve +alt mins. Also I’ve used up all my extra sims.

Don't sweat it too much, GA to 121 jet can be a hard jump to make for many folks, if you recover cleanly this will have minimal impact on your long-term career prospects.

Hope I can get another regional to give me a chance

Was this a visual approach with PAPI/VASI inoperative?
3:1 rule.
Extend runway threshold in the box and mentally calculate your altitudes.
3:1 so 3 NM = 900’ 5NM = 1500’ etc
It’s a classic end of checkride low hanging fruit really.
Sounds like you dug yourself a hole.
Honestly this is lack of experience and you start overthinking everything.

Visuals in the sim? Almost nobody does that and for good reason. It's hard enough for a noob in a real jet where you can look out the side window. Unless it's straight in for a no-flapper.

Well here is a life lesson, if you are asked to do something on your checkride that you haven't trained on, you need to stop right there. Do not pass go. Bring it up professionally. Ask to speak to a manager right away and explain the situation. If they don't incomplete and "reset" you after accomplishing the required training, you need to take it as high as necessary to get it fixed. Younger guys often aren't as resourceful and aggressive with this (and I don't mean being condescending and argumentative), so unfortunately the get the short end of the stick sometimes when the department knows they couldn't get away with the same thing with someone a bit older. You should have training records as well, so you should be able to show them where you have NOT trained on a visual approach. You should be watching them fill out the forms/entries at the end of each event and if it doesn't match, then they are falsifying records and intentional falsification is a big deal.

The life lesson is that you have to look out for you. You need to be intimately familiar with the checkride and what is on it as far as tasks. You should have known ahead of time. Checkrides are not supposed to by mystery guessing games. At the time of the check they should have been able to show/tell you what is on the check as far as tasks. You should have known before you started the check whether you practiced all of the tasks and if you find something that you had not been trained on, you don't take the check, no matter how much you want to get it done. Errors and screwups happen, both in training departments and as the fault of the applicant, but not providing training on a checkride task isn't a small thing. Who would a reputable airline want to hire?, the one that "got away with it" and "made it work" or the one that didn't take the check because they didn't get training on the tasks in the check? That's like turning down a flight when the weather doesn't meet mins. I realize that not all regionals are "reputable" in this way, but eventually you might make it up to a big airline and they most definitely care about doing things the right way.

Was the initial training/checking done under AQP (Part 121 Subpart Y) or traditional Part 121 Subpart N&O training program? I am not aware of any requirement for an air carrier to check visual approaches on an initial equipment 121.441 Sim PC or AQP maneuvers validation.

Was it perhaps a “no flap” visual approach without reference to the VGSI? “No Flap” approach & landing should be trained and checked if the aircraft’s FSB Report requires it.

Usually visual approaches are done with a check airman during IOE.

It's always been up to the airline whether they want to go "above and beyond" within their training program. It states in the FAA guidance for inspectors that the airlines can have higher standards than are listed there and in the regulation, those are just the "minimums", except you absolutely have to provide training on whatever you are checking obviously and it has to be a safe practice/mitigated. So if they wanted to train and check visual approaches...they could.

I made a huge mistake which might of potentially ruined my career. I should of stopped the checkride at that moment, I keep blaming myself for doing the checkride in the first place but at the same time I can’t go back in time. Now I have to look for other regionals that can give me a chance. Mesa turned me down so there’s that.....

If Mesa turned you down, then you have a huge problem.

Maybe not. Mesa is super fat on ejet Fo and unless you want the crj they can presently afford to be more selective. The original regional said reapply in 6 months. There were other training failures beside the ride. The poster said additional sims were used up. Normally an initial ride failure this far in would be retrain/retest just that task.

A visual? Unfortunately that sounds so basic it may be hard to explain.
Now a single engine, dual gen fail, no flap visual....easier to explain.


I foresee this becoming more and more common with inexperienced pilots getting ahead of themselves.
Go find a right seat 91/135 job and learn all you can.

Keep applying all places, all they can say is no. I know one guy who failed out of more than one regional and is a captain now somewhere. Is your career over, no way-that’s a bad attitude to have. You’re young, you messed up, learn from it and move on. You invested a lot to walk away just yet. Just don’t let it happen again, if you don’t feel ready or adequately trained in an area you need to speak up ahead of time.

Biggest advice is to be honest about the whole situation and don’t make excuses in future interviews. Not every candidate you’re competing with has a perfect record. Some guys may have checkride failures, some may have been fired, some may not even take the interview serious. There is hope especially when it comes to scoring a job at a regional. Once you get on somewhere work hard (no more checkride busts, volunteer, get into training department) so you can over shadow that blemish on your record for the majors.

Lastly, I don’t agree with some saying it’s going to be hard explaining why you messed up a visual approach. Actually that’s one of the more difficult things to learn in a jet for noobs for some reason. I see tons of brand new FOs and have even flown with some captains that have struggled with them and have heard it consistently from check airmen that give training. I know I struggled a little at them when I started. I know I’m not going to be the only one saying this either. Live and learn. Good luck.

Thank you so much !! I’ve applied to every other regional there is. Hope I can reply from someone soon

I have trouble believing that something NOT TRAINED would be introduced on a checkride in a structured training program.
Now I’ve never been through a -121 program which I believe to be even more highly structured that the military/P135 training programs that I have been through. Is this a common occurrence?

I suspect it might be covered in a cursory manner. I’ve seen it often combined with the partial/no flap landing. Usually one failing item isn’t an “down the road” event, but others here know more.

Was this a Visual Approach or an approach in Visual conditions

I’m struggling with this one a little as we’re getting crumbs of information in every new post.

In real life when cleared for a “visual approach” it’s prudent to still use available lateral and vertical guidance.
So:
How exactly was this set up and what was the assignment.
I’m thinking there’s more going on here.

I don’t believe you’re allowed to use a backup (e.g. ILS) for the visual approach on a rating ride.

It was in the syllabus but my instructor said it was a “show and tell” and said my sim partner and I should use that time to practice more important stuff like v1 cuts, SE landings, etc... little did I know....

In my case we were allowed but ils was out of service so I could only use lateral guidance which would be the localizer.

Obviously my checkride didn’t go perfect. Small mistakes were made, which weren’t a major issue. Im positive if I had an Instrument approach it would of been a pass. That visual was the main reason I failed, that being said it wasn’t the ONLY screw up. The examiner said every other mistake I did was a debrief item. Just that visual was the icing on the cake

So you had a localizer.
Did you have a PAPI/VASI?
Since it was a “show and tell” the instructor must have given you some guidance as to how to do it.
Which means you’ve been trained.

Nope. As I mentioned before I’ve never done a visual approach in the simulator before my checkride

I find it difficult to understand how a 121 (or any professional TO) allows untrained events to be checked.

GF

I told my instructors I wanted to practice visuals they told me I don’t have to waste sim time on it and instead I can work on something else since (to their knowledge) it’s not coming on the checkride. I honestly can’t blame them, they were trying to help me save sim time since they thought I wouldn’t get visuals on the checkride

Hang on...were you briefed on how to do one?
As stated earlier you can’t be tested on what’s not trained so I’m thinking we’ve got a mountain of misunderstanding here.
What did your sim partner think of it?
If it was considered a “briefing only” item then technically you’ve been trained.
But I don’t know how the training syllabus was set up.
I’m thinking there’s something you’re overlooking.
Again, what do you consider a visual approach and how was it set up?
Straight in 10 mile final starting at 3000’?

Maybe the examiner noticed a pattern of mistakes and thought, well let’s do a visual and see how he performs. Then with the way the visual went he decided not to pass.