arch19

Hello! I hope this is an appropriate place to post this. I am thirty years old and have been involved in aviation on and off for about 18 years, including radio control, a hint of homebuilding, nine years attending Airventure (and three volunteering as a marshal), a lot of aerial and air-to-air photography (including about 20 hrs in warbirds...so much fun...), and a couple thousand hours teaching at aviation and rocketry summer camps. I am not, however, a licensed pilot, though only due to money.

At Western Michigan University ten years ago, I dipped my toes into the aviation program. But I ultimately opted to study business because so many of my peers were not able to find flying jobs, and those who were able to find flying jobs were paid so little. I am also an entrepreneur at heart, and mentors of mine who were successful in aviation suggested I study business.

Fast forward to 2019. After sitting at computers for nearly 13 years (I work and have always worked in tech and multimedia), I decided I needed a change. Between having recently relocated to being only miles from a major US airline hub, spending hours a week plane spotting, and flying commercially perhaps a dozen times in the prior two years (vs only three times in total previously), I again started to dig into what an aviation career might look like, and, this time, the airlines in particular.

2019 was crazy due to wedding planning and house shopping, but with that out of the way, I can better focus on a career change. First, am I crazy? And second, if not, where do I begin? Can I just rattle off a bunch of questions on this forum? I don't want to spend a hundred grand or take a pay cut (I am about average right now anyway). I can technically do both, though I should not do the first, and I would prefer to avoid the latter for more than a brief period of time. My wife is supportive of any of it, though. Where I am at now is not sure if I want to be gone 1/3 of the time or potentially have to relocate to wherever I would be based. It's the last part that really kills it. But aviation is one of my three passions, the others being visual and performing arts. Aviation is my happy place, and to be able to make a living flying or at least being around airplanes -- I've done okay so far in this department as far as volunteering is concerned -- would be fantastic. I need to talk to others who are on this road already so I can better understand the process...and the airline life. And I would like to see what other options are out there. For example, I love to teach. I tend to think I would enjoy instructing. But I also cannot take a pay cut long term.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.

rickair7777

No, people do it, and older than you. The trick is getting to a major, and doing it before all the retirements dry up, so in your case 2028 might be the deadline, sooner if possible for seniority of course. These are some things predict success at getting to a major: No criminal record, few traffic violations, clean employment history (no terminations, drama, etc), college GPA > 3.0, master's degree, athletic/action-adventure background. And in your case the sustained interest in aviation helps.

Yes, you can rattle off questions. Most have probably been asked here if you do some searches or just read other threads like this. Be aware that any info more than a few years is likely dated and may lead you astray.

There are essentially zero opportunities for someone else to pay for your flight training in the US, other than the military. So you'll be spending something in the ballpark of a hundred grand but that would be the upper limit, you should be able to find it for less (if not you're looking in the wrong places).

As far as a pay cut goes... may need to take the long view.

You CAN keep your day job, and train mostly on nights/weekends (I did for a while), but that will take longer (retirements & seniority!) and won't leave you much time for anything else.

You could in theory also build time as a CFI while working a day job, but that will take even longer since you'll be limited in the students you can work with if you're not available 24/7. Will probably need to work full-time as a CFI. Pay can vary I'd guess $20-50K, but hopefully someone closer to the problem can elaborate on that.

Once you get to a regional, FO's are making $40-50K first year, more in some cases with bonuses, but the ones with the biggest bonuses offer that because nobody wants to work there.

You don't *have* to relocate in most cases, since you can commute. But living in base makes it a LOT easier, especially when you're a junior airline pilot. Where do you live? Are there any airline bases nearby?

Commuting can make being gone 1/3-1/2 of the time more like being gone 80% of time, worst case.


Flight instructing is a HARD work. Most of us enjoyed it while we did it, but were happy to head off to the airlines after a few years. Teaching in high-end simulators pays a living wage, but you're in a dark box all day, not much like real flying.

Airline flying isn't as much fun as other types of flying but it offers a VERY rare combination of pay, time off, and flexibility. And it's still flying, and many of us still enjoy it.

DontLookDown

You came to this forum looking for advice from strangers who aren’t going to sugar coat the truth so I’ll give you exactly that...

You spent a lot of time selling us on how you’re so passionate about aviation.

You then go on to say BUT I don’t wanna invest in it, I don’t want it to cause me time away from home, I don’t wanna sacrifice any short term income potential and I don’t want to move.

In short, you don’t want this enough to make a career out of it.

You seem like the guy who’s better off flying remote controlled planes or drones on the weekends or maybe eventually getting a pilot certificate and flying as part of a flying club every now and then.

PRS Guitars

If you want it to be free, you’ll need to join the AF Reserves or Guard, they are commonly doing age savers above 30 now. Where do you live?

sourdough44

There are ‘fast track’ options, they require $$ though. That $$ is a stumbling block for many, faith in the future helps too. Motivation and a stronger work ethic are key elements.

Right now most with 1500 hours and a clear background are getting hired at regionals.

arch19

I’m based about fifteen minutes from MSP, where the 133rd Airlift Wing is also based. They operate the C130 there. Should I look into this? I thought I was too old. But it sounds like the new rules are that you must enter UPT by your 33rd birthday. I’m not looking for a free entry into aviation, but this sounds pretty cool, to be honest.

arch19

Do you mean programs like ATP? I know the nearest program through them is in Chicago, five hours away. The University of Mankato is another formal track, I believe, but surely not fast? That’s an hour to an hour southwest of me. I do already have a college degree. With ATP, how ‘fast’ does one get to a point of being hirable versus more traditional routes? Any other fast track options? I am assuming local, traditional flight schools that offer ‘fast track’ training programs don’t count?

sourdough44

To get started, keep your day job & put yourself on the local ‘fast-track’ towards your private pilot. You should be able to do it before the end of this Summer, start TODAY.

I don’t know what’s available near you, there are a handful of training options at many midlin size airports. You may not NEED a formal ground school, but an option. There are free downloads at the FAA site. AOPA should still offer Flight Training magazine free to flight students.

You get your private, like it, with no medical or skeletons in your closet, go to ATP or a similar program.

NewCareer

Rick’s advice is pretty much gold as far as you’re concerned. Lots of people doing it. I made the switch to professional at 40. There are guys doing it who are 50 and older. I wish I could do the Air Guard thing too but too old. My only regret is not doing it sooner. Feel free to PM me if you want to speak on the phone. Also, be advised: Plenty of guys will try to take a dump in your dreams here on this forum. Don’t give it a second thought, but you have lots of research to do. Good news is, it’s all right here. But again, Rick pretty much covered it.

Good luck.

ESQ702

Go for it, but be careful about borrowing to get your hours. It’s made all the difference to my family and I that I had the funds saved up to pay cash for flight time and training.

Good luck either way!