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cfii2007 06-02-2022 03:27 AM

How to log King Air time?
 
I was recently typed in the BE300 with a PIC limitation (must be under SOE supervision for the first 20 hours).

Currently, the aircraft is flown with another PIC on board, switching flying duties every few hours.

How would I log the initial 20 hours as sole manipulator? SIC or PIC?
How would I log the time, post 20 hours as sole manipulator?

I believe the -300 is type certified for single pilot.

Beech Dude 06-02-2022 03:35 AM


Originally Posted by cfii2007 (Post 3433687)
I was recently typed in the BE300 with a PIC limitation (must be under SOE supervision for the first 20 hours).

Currently, the aircraft is flown with another PIC on board, switching flying duties every few hours.

How would I log the initial 20 hours as sole manipulator? SIC or PIC?
How would I log the time, post 20 hours as sole manipulator?

I believe the -300 is type certified for single pilot.

1. Log the first 20 as SIC with remarks that it's per the limitation.
2. After you can log PIC as sole manipulator, but I'd just log PIC if/only when I'm the guy/gal responsible for the flight. If I'm just the other guy, then I'd log it as SIC.
3. The -300 is single-pilot. If you completed the additional single-pilot items on your checkride then you can, if you didn't you'll have an additional SIC-required limitation on your ticket.

JohnBurke 06-02-2022 04:03 AM


Originally Posted by cfii2007 (Post 3433687)
I was recently typed in the BE300 with a PIC limitation (must be under SOE supervision for the first 20 hours).

Currently, the aircraft is flown with another PIC on board, switching flying duties every few hours.

How would I log the initial 20 hours as sole manipulator? SIC or PIC?
How would I log the time, post 20 hours as sole manipulator?

I believe the -300 is type certified for single pilot.

Your temporary pilot certificate came with a limitation stating that you must be under supervision for 20 hours, or your employer provided this limitation?

There is only one PIC on board. You are either the pilot in command, or you are not. The King Air 300 requires one pilot under its type certification.

If you log PIC, there's no "sole manipulator PIC. Just PIC. There are several means by which you can log PIC, and sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated, is one such qualification. You can also log PIC if you are pilot in command of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member under type certification, or the regulations under which the flight is operated (eg, Part 135, etc). It's a single pilot airplane, so the type certification doesn't require a second crew member. If your employer requires one, such as a corporate department that wants a second pilot, that doesn't qualify for a required. second crew member, for the purposes of logging PIC. Regardless, it's simply logged as "PIC."

If there is "another PIC" on board, which if you is actually in command. Who has ultimate authority and ultimate responsibility for the aircraft and the flight? If you're the pilot in command, then log PIC. If the other pilot is PIC, then you're not. If a SIC isn't required, you're also not SIC.

You haven't provided enough information about your operation, the type of regulation under which the flight or aircraft is operated, nature of your employement, etc.

EMAW 06-02-2022 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by cfii2007 (Post 3433687)
I was recently typed in the BE300 with a PIC limitation (must be under SOE supervision for the first 20 hours).

Currently, the aircraft is flown with another PIC on board, switching flying duties every few hours.

How would I log the initial 20 hours as sole manipulator? SIC or PIC?
How would I log the time, post 20 hours as sole manipulator?

I believe the -300 is type certified for single pilot.

There is some muddy water here but the simple answer is only log PIC time for those flights in which you are listed as PIC on the paperwork.
One other note. ALL 135 passenger ops require an SIC UNLESS the operator holds OPSPEC A015 (use of auto pilot in lieu of SIC) which applies to aircraft with 9 passengers or less.

Yes the 300 is Type Certificated for Single pilot, so provided you complete all the other training and do not have the “SIC REQUIRED” limitation on your certificate you can operate single pilot as long as the operation allows it.

dera 06-02-2022 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by EMAW (Post 3433816)
There is some muddy water here but the simple answer is only log PIC time for those flights in which you are listed as PIC on the paperwork.
One other note. ALL 135 passenger ops require an SIC UNLESS the operator holds OPSPEC A015 (use of auto pilot in lieu of SIC) which applies to aircraft with 9 passengers or less.

Yes the 300 is Type Certificated for Single pilot, so provided you complete all the other training and do not have the “SIC REQUIRED” limitation on your certificate you can operate single pilot as long as the operation allows it.

And even if the operator has Opspec A015, the PIC has to have completed a 135.297(g) checkride.

EMAW 06-02-2022 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3434027)
And even if the operator has Opspec A015, the PIC has to have completed a 135.297(g) checkride.

Of course.

cfii2007 06-04-2022 04:18 AM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3433701)
Your temporary pilot certificate came with a limitation stating that you must be under supervision for 20 hours, or your employer provided this limitation?

There is only one PIC on board. You are either the pilot in command, or you are not. The King Air 300 requires one pilot under its type certification.

If you log PIC, there's no "sole manipulator PIC. Just PIC. There are several means by which you can log PIC, and sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which you are rated, is one such qualification. You can also log PIC if you are pilot in command of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member under type certification, or the regulations under which the flight is operated (eg, Part 135, etc). It's a single pilot airplane, so the type certification doesn't require a second crew member. If your employer requires one, such as a corporate department that wants a second pilot, that doesn't qualify for a required. second crew member, for the purposes of logging PIC. Regardless, it's simply logged as "PIC."

If there is "another PIC" on board, which if you is actually in command. Who has ultimate authority and ultimate responsibility for the aircraft and the flight? If you're the pilot in command, then log PIC. If the other pilot is PIC, then you're not. If a SIC isn't required, you're also not SIC.

You haven't provided enough information about your operation, the type of regulation under which the flight or aircraft is operated, nature of your employement, etc.

We operate under Part 91, but the company we contract with requires two pilots. So far I've only logged sole manipulator, the time when actually flying the aircraft.

rickair7777 06-04-2022 09:23 AM

General industry practice...

You can log sole man PIC towards FAA requirements, typically the ATP. Regionals will be fine with that, and FAA regs allow it.

For majors (and higher-end non-121 employers), when they ask about your turbine PIC they want actual signed-for-the-airplane PIC, ie the captain/PIC of record. They do not expect to see sole man PIC mixed up in that number. If you read the fine-print, they tend to specify that on their applications.

If it were me, I'd log sole man PIC in it's own separate column... that way you can track it while keeping it separate from your actual in-charge PIC. Sol man is legitimately useful for FAA ratings and IIRC it can also count towards required mins for federal pilot jobs (not so much private sector jobs).

JohnBurke 06-04-2022 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by cfii2007 (Post 3434559)
We operate under Part 91, but the company we contract with requires two pilots. So far I've only logged sole manipulator, the time when actually flying the aircraft.

Operated under Part 91, there is no legal requirement for a second pilot in the airplane. A contract does not satisfy the CFR requirement for a second pilot in a single pilot airplane.

Again, there is no such thing as "sole manipulator PIC."

You are logging PIC, or you are not logging PIC. Period.

You may log PIC if you are sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft for which you are rated. You do not log it as "sole manipulator PIC." You simply log PIC. You'll raise more questions than you'll answer if you start making things up and sticking that in your logbook, or using columns such as "sole manipulator PIC." If you can log PIC, then just log PIC.

rickair7777 06-13-2022 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 3434997)
You may log PIC if you are sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft for which you are rated. You do not log it as "sole manipulator PIC." You simply log PIC. You'll raise more questions than you'll answer if you start making things up and sticking that in your logbook, or using columns such as "sole manipulator PIC." If you can log PIC, then just log PIC.

Gotta disagree.

Airlines employers typically want a tally of "signed for the aircraft" PIC, which is distinct from sole man PIC. I'd keep it separate.


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