Currently a regional captain- back when I was an FO about 3 years ago, we were descending on a STAR when I accidentally put the wrong bottom altitude, causing us to descend 1k lower than published. Approach quickly queried us as we were descending and I immediately corrected. Landed into OMA and got the dreaded phone number on the ground for a possible pilot deviation. Filed an ASAP, had a phone call with the committee and they said that it was all handled via ASAP, no further actions taken, no FAA action either to my knowledge of the events since it was a while ago. I recently decided to apply at a fractional- and it asks a few questions regarding pilot history- to include “was I ever a member of a crew that was under investigation or received a violation by the FAA” as well as “have I ever been involved in any aircraft incidents or mishaps either reported or unreported?”

I want to answer honestly of course, but I do not want to answer yes when in reality it was no and hurt my chances. Wanted some other opinions on what to put since it was all via ASAP. Nothing on PRD at all as well

 

FAR definition of "Incident":

Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.

So yeah, an altitude pilot deviation could be considered an incident.

I'd just go ahead and disclose it, it's minor. It will give you something relatively harmless to talk about, what you learned and how you'll avoid it happening in the future. They'll also appreciate your honesty, since as you say they probably weren't going to find out anyway.

Now is the question "Can I get away with lying about it?" Probably, but not for sure. Interviewers (at the better employers) are trained to spot indications of dishonesty. How good of an actor are you? Do you know how to lie professionally (the CIA would teach that, if you had worked for them. Or undercover law enforcement). Keep in mind they don't have to *prove* you're lying, just have a suspicion and they'll move on to the next candidate. Or maybe they won't even ask about it since you checked No on the application. But I've always been asked some catch-all question to the effect of "is there anything you'd like to disclose at this time?"

 

ASAP review isn't an investigation or a violation. You'd have been notified if that had occurred. If ASAP rejects it it's a different ballgame. You'll get formal notifications for that.

That's also not an 'incident' or 'mishap.'

 

Actually it is. If my post above wasn't clear on that...

49 CFR 8302.2
Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.


Now I get that pilots tend to think in terms of injuries and bent metal, but if somebody thought you should have disclosed it, the CFR would give them all the legal cover they need to not hire you (or fire you after the fact).

 

As this stage in the game disclose it.

”Well, this one time I filed an ASAP”

They’ll thank you for your honesty and move right along.

 

Any non-sole source ASAP is investigated by the FAA in a parallel investigation. Any corrective action is through the ASAP program of course. If you had a pilot deviation and ATC gave you a "number to call", that's a sure-sign that it generated an ATC Mandatory Occurrence Report and that was sent to Flight Standards, per procedure. Whether it's an accident, or a pilot deviation, if it's non-sole source, there is a parallel investigation, where they gather the facts and put them in a report.

Think about it logically, only sole-source reports are where "no one outside the ASAP committee" will know about it/investigate.

The FAA does use "incident" classification for Pilot Deviations. Does it mean the same thing to airlines as it does the FAA? Don't know. Pilot Deviations are when there's operation contrary to a controller's instructions, clearance or other regulatory matter. If it's determined that there was no actual violation/regulatory issue, it's re-classified as "nothing" and sent back to ATC.

There are times where ATC never sends the report to Flight Standards or even doesn't recognize that someone operated contrary to their instructions. I've seen ASAPs for these situations an they ended up being sole-source of course, because the ERC wouldn't have known about it if not for the pilot's report. If no one from Flight Standards contacted you, it might mean that it wasn't investigated...but often times they will go through management and management will have you submit a report/explanation/narrative through the chief pilot or company representative, etc. outside of the ASAP report. When that is done, they must be very clear that they are doing it for the purpose of the parallel investigation. It's probably best to again bet on any non-sole source report as having a parallel investigation, unless you can be absolutely certain it did not go to Flight Standards.

 

Everything non-standard could be thrown in an 'incident'. Over-rotated? Incident. High flare or high pitch attitude on landing? Incident. All of those events do affect the safety of operations because those are precursors to tail strikes or hard landings.

We're disagreeing on where we should draw the line.

 

I draw the line where paperwork exists. In my military and aviation career I've seen docs end up going to people they shouldn't have multiple times (also seen docs not go to people that they should have).

But it also depends on how the question is worded.