Phxdvt17

I'm sure this topic has been brought up multiple times before, though since every single persons situation is different, I am looking for advice specifically on my own. I'm a flight instructor in the PHX area and have hopes of pursuing an airline career. My question has to deal with specifics on how failed checkrides effect the possibility of me getting a job.

I failed my commercial single engle land on cross country flight planning. Not because my flight plan was off, but when it came time to do my diversion I did not have my E6B. Even though I got my time, distance and fuel correct on my diversion I didn't have a way of proving it besides me saying I had flown to the airport a few dozen times and knew all the information in my head.

Then I failed both my initial CFI, and CFII twice on the ground. Nothing really to say on that besides they were really difficult and wasn't as prepared as I should have been. I never had any problems on those flights, just the ground.

Do I have a chance at a future as an airline pilot? How will this affect me if I make it to an interview?

Thanks for any input and constructive advice.

Senior Skipper

3 failures isn't career ending, but you will have to try harder to get that first airline interview. I'm not in the hiring department, so I have no clue if they're interested in why you failed, or just that you failed.

Right now, it seems that anybody with a relatively clean record can get hired somewhere. If you hit the job fairs and get some face time with the recruiters, maybe you'll get a better shot at selling yourself.

Otherwise, you may look into flying for a small 135 company to prove that you are trainable, and proficient.

Once you make it to the airline interview, the prevailing wisdom seems to be just take responsibility for the failures.

PS. From what you wrote, that CSEL fail seems a bit sketchy. I don't recall seeing where the PTS says you need to use an E6B. If you can show the examiner that you know how to do the math in your head, I don't see how that could be a problem.

RunnerMark

I honestly don't think it will be an issue in the long run. It might be slightly harder to prove yourself to a regional that doesn't want you to fail out of their ground school... but then again, some are desperate for pilots.

I agree with the Senior Skipper, get a 135 job flying caravans etc if you can to show that you are trainable in an airline/professional environment. Once you have a professional job, it's up to you to keep your resume clean. If you can keep from failing company proficiency checks etc, I wouldn't see any problem.

FWIW, I failed my CFII ride and my ATP oral. I've had two 121 jobs.

JamesNoBrakes

This doesn't sound right, even the Airplane Flying Handbook says you should use rules of thumb to determine the calculations during a diversion. The use of the E6B isn't what made you fail, it would be failure to apply rules of thumb and basic calculations/estimations in flight (and be able to justify them). Saying you "know" the information because you've flown there before is not going to be acceptable, but using an E6B is usually not the way to do it either. You're going to have to do similar calculations as a commercial/airline pilot for things, just FYI.

I failed my power off 180 as a commercial student, although right before that I did a perfect power off 180 right before that from the downwind as part of my emergency approach and landing from higher altitude. I thought the examiner was combining the maneuvers. If I had known more I might have tried to petition the decision to be reversed, but I got it the next time. As a CFI, I decided to make that one of my "specialties" as far as becoming an expert at it and being able to teach and fly in any situation.

Denver

I had a guy fail once because he forgot his E6B on the flight for the divert. He could do it in his head but Noooaaaoo. '

That's just ridiculous.

HercDriver130

If I read the OP correctly, It was FIVE failures... the commercial once and each of his orals on his CFI and CFII TWICE each... FIVE.

Honestly dont know what to say. None of it was for actual flying but .....wow. Certainly doesnt hurt to apply and hit a few job fairs as stated. Plus I think the 135 route might be a plus as someone said ... in proving you can do it.

Bottom line....no more busts.... even if it's just the oral.

or maybe... he meant TWICE as in both failures were on the ground... if so my apologies. Either way... its all good adivice ...nose to the grindstone young man.

rickair7777

If it's 4-5 busts, you're out of the game for now.

To get back in, you'll need 135 experience for at least several years and several thousand hours (including multiple checkride events with no busts). You'll need to accept full responsibility for the busts, explain what you learned and what you do differrently now. You'll also have to explain why it took so many busts to get your act together.

You'll also need some robust hiring, and a shortage at the regional level. While I (and most recruiters) believe someone can learn from and and overcome something like this, the hard fact is that after colgan, airlines are very sensitive as to how a pilot's record will look in the media and courtroom after a crash. Most or all airlines will have firm policies against hiring someone with that many busts and it will take time and a real pilot shortage to change that.

JamesNoBrakes

And if this was a 141 school, failing a "stage exam" doesn't constitute failure in the eyes of the FAA. Were you in a 141 school? Have you actually pulled your FAA records? I deal with pilot records and I can definitely tell you I know the difference. The only one that keeps a record of a failed stage check is your school, and after a year it's gone forever, unless the school keeps it longer, but most of them get rid of the files after a few years anyway.

jumpseat2024

That's great, but he's not applying for an FAA job. Have you seen an airline app since the Colgan crash? I forget the exact wording, but it's more or less "have you failed any training event that would have resulted in the issuance of a license?"

One thing that will get you sent home from an interview before you finish your coffee is when they find out you lied about failed check rides.

chrisreedrules

I failed two checkrides. The oral for my Private pilot single engine (I just wasn't prepared) and the flight for my multi private checkride (the DG was broke and precessed about 90 degrees every 10 minutes and I forgot to set it coming into an unfamiliar airport for some touch and go's). They have yet to affect me. However, as many failures as you have you should really re-think your study methods or check ride prep or something. 4 or 5 is a bit excessive. Will that hurt you long term? Probably not. But like others have said it will probably make it difficult to land that first airline job.