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-   -   To be a CFI or not to be a CFI? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/career-questions/84733-cfi-not-cfi.html)

Yoda2 10-30-2014 09:45 AM

If you have the Quals for a VFR 135 job, you might pursue that. You could even try Alaska. If you do go, Try not to waste anyone's time, including your own, unless you are a good stick, can land on a dime and make change (without dragging it in) If a company does not have a pilot position open at the time, consider helping out wherever else you can, including the maintenance shop. This will also show your employer you are serious.

eman 10-30-2014 10:10 AM

With that much multi time and she's close to the 700 hr part 135 Vfr requirement...I think those suggesting she try to leverage that are spot on. If anything, the CFI can be your backup idea or just something you work on at another location. $9 is going to make your life miserable, keep living cheap, bust your hump and save up to get where you need to be. Oh yea and network

OnCenterline 10-30-2014 01:09 PM

Steff,

Check your PM for a few thoughts on your situation.

CFI Guy 10-30-2014 05:30 PM


Originally Posted by aviatrixsteff (Post 1755773)
That's true! I did most of my ratings with a freelance instructor for $45 an hour. He was more expensive than the flight school but he was a former airline and current corporate pilot so I felt he was worth it. Hopefully someone will feel I am worth it ��

The only way to make money as a CFI is to work as an independent contractor. I currently charge $50-$60/hr (or whatever I can get away with) and work in the Los Angeles area ($$$$). It took me a while to get established but now I'm in demand. When I instructed full time I could easily bill 120hrs plus a month between flight/ground/sim instruction. When I was really killing myself I was flying the max number of hours I could legally plus additional ground/sim instruction so you do the math.

I'm now flying a jet and have earned two type ratings. This further adds to my reputation so it's an easy sell. I also have over 5000 (stopped counting) dual given hours. I'm not trying to blow my own horn but I just laugh when people say you can't make money as a flight instructor. It is possible but you have to build experience and credibility. You are running your own business and have to know how to deal with people, be likable, knowledgeable, etcetera. If you are not a people person and aren't an effective teacher then you will not be successful.

It doesn't sound like you want to go down this route as you are just interested in "building time". Unfortunately people can smell this from a mile away and run the other direction. My sales pitch to potential clients is simple. Why go to the other flight school and be taught by an inexperienced CFI (looking to build time and will leave at the first opportunity in the middle of your training) when you can pay me the same rate they are charging but get someone with my experience level?

I see ads for the larger flight schools which pay a decent salary plus have an influx of usually foreign students. Most of them want a minimum number of dual given hours (2-300 hrs) so you might have to suck it up at the $10/hr place you can find a job at now. If I were in your shoes that's what I would do. As soon as you hit 900 hrs apply to Ameriflight and they'll let you timebuild with them until you hit part 135 minimums. From there you can get your ATP minimums and go 121/135/91 or whatever you desire.

Instructing is a part-time gig for me now but I do it because I enjoy it. Most pilots loathe instructing and clients pick up on that vibe.

Remember being independent means running a business. Go to where the people, money, and good weather is located. Flying isn't cheap so your clients can't be poor (or need high credit card limits). Don't go cheap and undercut yourself if you go this route. I think for the level of liability I expose myself to I should charge waaaaaay more. It's even making me question why I still do it. Unfortunately my "real" flying job doesn't pay enough.

My friend teaches tennis. She's pretty good and charges $100/hr. I knew I should have
kept playing.

aviatrixsteff 10-31-2014 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by CFI Guy (Post 1755990)
The only way to make money as a CFI is to work as an independent contractor. I currently charge $50-$60/hr (or whatever I can get away with) and work in the Los Angeles area ($$$$). It took me a while to get established but now I'm in demand. When I instructed full time I could easily bill 120hrs plus a month between flight/ground/sim instruction. When I was really killing myself I was flying the max number of hours I could legally plus additional ground/sim instruction so you do the math.

I'm now flying a jet and have earned two type ratings. This further adds to my reputation so it's an easy sell. I also have over 5000 (stopped counting) dual given hours. I'm not trying to blow my own horn but I just laugh when people say you can't make money as a flight instructor. It is possible but you have to build experience and credibility. You are running your own business and have to know how to deal with people, be likable, knowledgeable, etcetera. If you are not a people person and aren't an effective teacher then you will not be successful.

It doesn't sound like you want to go down this route as you are just interested in "building time". Unfortunately people can smell this from a mile away and run the other direction. My sales pitch to potential clients is simple. Why go to the other flight school and be taught by an inexperienced CFI (looking to build time and will leave at the first opportunity in the middle of your training) when you can pay me the same rate they are charging but get someone with my experience level?

I see ads for the larger flight schools which pay a decent salary plus have an influx of usually foreign students. Most of them want a minimum number of dual given hours (2-300 hrs) so you might have to suck it up at the $10/hr place you can find a job at now. If I were in your shoes that's what I would do. As soon as you hit 900 hrs apply to Ameriflight and they'll let you timebuild with them until you hit part 135 minimums. From there you can get your ATP minimums and go 121/135/91 or whatever you desire.

Instructing is a part-time gig for me now but I do it because I enjoy it. Most pilots loathe instructing and clients pick up on that vibe.

Remember being independent means running a business. Go to where the people, money, and good weather is located. Flying isn't cheap so your clients can't be poor (or need high credit card limits). Don't go cheap and undercut yourself if you go this route. I think for the level of liability I expose myself to I should charge waaaaaay more. It's even making me question why I still do it. Unfortunately my "real" flying job doesn't pay enough.

My friend teaches tennis. She's pretty good and charges $100/hr. I knew I should have
kept playing.


Thanks for the information!

It's nice to see that there are experienced pilots out there who keep instructing. I was fortunate enough to have an instructor like you. He didn't really have to instruct, he just enjoyed it, and me and one other guy were his only students. A much better learning environment than being taught by a 300 hr pilot who's hardly left the traffic pattern himself.

It's just really painful to have to get a loan for around $5-7,000 for a rating I only plan to use for a few hundred hours until Im qualified for something else. It's that expensive because I will have to move somewhere to do the training for the rating (I currently live with my mom so I have no rent). More than the pay being crappy at the school here, it's just a bad place to work. They typically only hire their own students- the two people who I know that came in from the outside got ran off quickly, the in-house examiner failed their students, and now they have a previous employer whose not going to give them a nice reference. My boyfriend worked there and turned in his letter of resignation last week, hallelujah.

But, there aren't really any other ways to build time! So, I guess I have no choice lol. The unanimous decision of everyone seems to be to get the CFI.

CFI Guy 10-31-2014 01:21 PM

There are other ways to build time. I have one student who was recently hired by an aerial mapping company. He said he's planning on building several hundred hours next year.

Another student of mine just flew in a couple days ago from Africa. He was low time and got hired by a tour company in Botswana. 172s, 206s, caravans. The hiring season will start soon.

There are opportunities but you have to be willing to go anywhere.

aviatrixsteff 10-31-2014 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by CFI Guy (Post 1756488)
There are other ways to build time. I have one student who was recently hired by an aerial mapping company. He said he's planning on building several hundred hours next year.

Another student of mine just flew in a couple days ago from Africa. He was low time and got hired by a tour company in Botswana. 172s, 206s, caravans. The hiring season will start soon.

There are opportunities but you have to be willing to go anywhere.

I applied to four survey companies this season, no luck. I've applied to weather modification, traffic watch, Great Lakes Airlines, Air Cargo, pipeline patrol, ect. Unfortunately there are a lot other pilots with my time (and higher) applying to these jobs. I think not having a CFI might be part of what's keeping my resume at the bottom of the stack unfortunately.

Rebuilt 10-31-2014 03:08 PM

I instructed full time for year and a half . One of the part time instructors flew for a commuter airline and arranged for me to have an interview with his chief pilot. Turns out the chief pilot was also an ex-instructor at the same flight school. Began my airline career in this manner. You never know.

I continued to instruct part time after getting on with the commuter airline.

OnCenterline 10-31-2014 04:40 PM

If you get it, you won't regret it.

Yoda2 10-31-2014 06:31 PM

The CFI can help a career in many ways. I hold more than a few airman certificates, though the CFI is the one I prize the most. It is also the one that carries the most responsibility. One of the most noble ways to use it, is for its intended purpose. Additionally, I most admire those who have gone on to successful flying careers, though still realize the importance of maintaining the certificate and returning to incorporate their real world experience into their lessons, to give back and pass it on; for a fee of course... If you are seriously considering a career in aviation, I would seriously consider earning the CFI. However, if you are not passionate about teaching, I would seriously recommend you not exercise its privileges...


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