Cargo vs Passenger pilot
#51
DP, pax and cargo are opposite sides of the coin and different in every respect besides the cockpit. You are suited to one or the other, though its best to experience both to best appreciate the differences. Cargo can be subdivided into 2 categories, scheduled (FedEx/UPS) and ACMI (Atlas, Kalitta). I am ACMI and can't speak to FedEx/UPS type operations so I won't, other than saying I imagine it to be somewhat of a middle ground. Pax tends to be more glamorous with newer airplanes and cleaner uniforms. ACMI planes are older and uniforms are replaced with tee shirts/sweatpants at top of climb. Pax flying is 2-4 day trips, either living in base or commuting and crash padding, followed by 2-6 days off. ACMI is 15-20 day trips, home based with paid tickets to/from work followed by 8-20 days off. Pax tends to be better paid but more monotonous. You are locked in the cockpit and do 12-24 hour overnights in Holiday Inns in places like Oakland, Omaha, Orlandlo. ACMI you have no cockpit door, no whiney passengers or high maintenance FAs, no stupid PA announcements, and will have 24-72 hour layovers in nice hotels in Europe and Asia and dirtholes in New York and Anchorage. Pax operations will get you more landings and keep you more proficient. ACMI is long haul with relief pilots and bunks. It is more physically demanding with jet lag and multiple time zones. Pilot skills tend to deteriorate and FO's get only 1-2 landings per month. I was a career changer too and found it to be a culture shock, and a marriage deal-breaker, but I have never looked back. Good luck!
Pax flying:
You operate on the consumer side of the fence which means restaurants and terminals, more clean cut environment, routine, many of the same airports, relatively slow progression towards true international flying, OK to solid job security as you move away from the bottom, seniority is very important to QOL. Pay is better than ACMI long term but a bit to a lot less than scheduled cargo depending on carrier.
UPS/FedEX:
You operate on the business side of the fence (the dark side of Disney), Routine day flying ala Allegiant or round the world adventures and anything in between. Immediate or almost immediate widebody international flying opportunity. Rough schedules for the junior guy especially as you acclimatize to night flying, good job security, seniority is typically less important than at pax carriers. Probably pays the most.
ACMI:
Contract worker feel, you are on your own, some don’t have dispatchers, feast or famine, lots of adventure for good and bad, trucker feel, lots of “characters”, grimy equipment, pay can be very good during busy times, inconsistent “were making this a career” one year “leave if you don’t like it” the next, crappy benefits, questionable job security, does not have a feeling of stability to it. Use it as a steppingstone.
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Left, right & center
Posts: 772
Contract worker feel, you are on your own, some don’t have dispatchers, feast or famine, lots of adventure for good and bad, trucker feel, lots of “characters”, grimy equipment, pay can be very good during busy times, inconsistent “were making this a career” one year “leave if you don’t like it” the next, crappy benefits, questionable job security, does not have a feeling of stability to it. Use it as a steppingstone.
The ACMI operators run the gamut from "could be a career place" to "wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole".
I have never felt like a trucker.
Yes, the airplanes we fly are (mostly) not new. Many of them were recently flying for passenger airlines. They sometimes need paint or a good wash, but "grimy"? No. I suspect that those who are flying 747-8s that are only a few years old would particularly disagree with that description.
You'll find "characters" everywhere you go. I guarantee every airline has them.
"Feeling of security" is frequently an illusion, no matter where you go. Those who are jumping on the tail end of the seniority list at Big Name Airline today might have a feeling of security, but as we approach a recession, that feeling is illusory. There were many who went to ACMI cargo carriers begging to fly "grimy" airplanes during the Covid furloughs while ACMI cargo got busier.
#53
Some thoughts from a recently retired Fedex guy. The International you could do with either an ACMI or Fedex/UPS share many of the same pros and cons, and even some with the PAX carriers that do long haul international. The big differences between them all are how senior you are when you can hold this type of flying and how well your compensated or treated (from a scheduled standpoint) and, to a great degree, how lucky (or unlucky) you are on what you can hold and how your company treats you with changes to your trip while in the field. Fedex was generally pretty good with regards to changes and how often they happened and how bad/good the change turned out to be. My understanding is the ACMI operators are much more likely to have large, broad changes that could not only effect the quality of your trip but the pay and worse, when you would actually get home from your trip.
The quality of your "experience" on the road is going to vary depending on mostly things you can't control and, what you could control, your personality and how well you deal with changes. The one thing I would suggest to any young, prospective INTL pilot, whether with Fedex/UPS or an ACMI, is to try and get in on it early, enjoy the lifestyle, as you will, and be ready to avoid it as you get older due to the effects of age on the backside of the world life. Fatigue is real and amplified when flying very long duty days and resting after flying through 5, 6 ,7 or more time zones than where your body has last been acustumed to. That said, you most likely will never visit, let alone flying into most the cities you will regularly see if you seek out long haul international. The good news for Fedex/UPS types are you do have an out option, maybe within your aircraft fleet, or otherwise with an equipment change.
The quality of your "experience" on the road is going to vary depending on mostly things you can't control and, what you could control, your personality and how well you deal with changes. The one thing I would suggest to any young, prospective INTL pilot, whether with Fedex/UPS or an ACMI, is to try and get in on it early, enjoy the lifestyle, as you will, and be ready to avoid it as you get older due to the effects of age on the backside of the world life. Fatigue is real and amplified when flying very long duty days and resting after flying through 5, 6 ,7 or more time zones than where your body has last been acustumed to. That said, you most likely will never visit, let alone flying into most the cities you will regularly see if you seek out long haul international. The good news for Fedex/UPS types are you do have an out option, maybe within your aircraft fleet, or otherwise with an equipment change.
#55
It is a great opportunity with FedEx/UPS and the Big 3 to be able to adjust your lifestyle by equipment choices as mentioned previously. Feel lucky that our ACMI does have that opportunity today, tomorrow and for years to come hopefully. Nothing lasts forever except for our final end game. It has been amazing to globetrot on someone else’s dime with some really nice layovers. True, it is feast or famine and seniority does help - less than other outfits, but it still has its merits when being proactive and creative. Priorities are different for everyone, but if you enjoy coming to what we call “work” then you’ve won more than half the battle. Enjoying the ride now and hopefully to the end as no one really knows if you have “chosen wisely” until looking back at the end of your career.
Last edited by C17B74; 04-29-2022 at 09:23 PM.
#56
Update for the worldwide traveler: Globe has been letting up quite a bit this year so hopefully for the pax carriers it gets better. Flown on a few commercial DH’s back from Asia but more so back and forth from Europe. Definitely more butts in seats and increasing but a far cry from before. Number of flights have increased but definitely plenty of stagnant commercial aluminum laying around and perhaps as summer rolls around it will get better. Our layovers are getting significantly better restriction wise in most countries so the end of the tunnel “seems” near. Ventured down under (Stayed away from New Zealand til they work it out) after a three year hiatus (personal choice as we were Lepers mid-2020 til this year) and it’s almost chill aside from a rapid test and it’s rather delayed rainy season.
*Getting back to the unbeatable fun times like before and enjoying the less crowds but that will resume most likely and enjoying less lines/wait times while I can (just me). Surviving franchises raring to go so our per diem and more is spent accordingly. Ukraine disaster has taken the spotlight off the viral debacle so the by-product of war has helped in this regard. Possible recession or economic slowdown/downturn may impact commercial movement harder than containers so once again it’s something to consider when deciding Passengers or Boxes. Not an expert, no crystal ball, Mongo just pawn in airline industry but able to fly N, S, E, W on a monthly basis to some fantastic locations more than most as a first hand account. If International is your game time to enter or return there’s nothing like it and this gig was made for me is my experience. Not all overseas flying is the same, find your niche or priority and just do it! Happy to see it “seems” to be coming back.
*Getting back to the unbeatable fun times like before and enjoying the less crowds but that will resume most likely and enjoying less lines/wait times while I can (just me). Surviving franchises raring to go so our per diem and more is spent accordingly. Ukraine disaster has taken the spotlight off the viral debacle so the by-product of war has helped in this regard. Possible recession or economic slowdown/downturn may impact commercial movement harder than containers so once again it’s something to consider when deciding Passengers or Boxes. Not an expert, no crystal ball, Mongo just pawn in airline industry but able to fly N, S, E, W on a monthly basis to some fantastic locations more than most as a first hand account. If International is your game time to enter or return there’s nothing like it and this gig was made for me is my experience. Not all overseas flying is the same, find your niche or priority and just do it! Happy to see it “seems” to be coming back.
#59
Maybe for many back in 2022 when that very insightful post was done. Definitely an awesome throwback to some good times. Seems as though the rebound has been very good compared to what many of us feared. Cargo is suffering a bit here and there, but others have been fortunate and continue to roam about the globe. May we all do well whether pax or cargo as these choices are made primarily with a subjective mindset. Crap happens, it is what it is.
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