ABX Hiring Window Open
 

Just learned today that our hiring window has opened again. Please be advised that there have been discussions of furloughs from upper management. Please be informed before giving up a stable source of income.

With your 42k you will be footing the bill for your own lodging while in training. No per diem. You will be based out of cvg and be prepared to pull lots of airport reserve and you will need a car and somewhere to stay. You will barely get your 100 hrs of consolidation time within the required time. You will then go back to sitting airport reserve and getting no per diem or lodging or flight time. Also, dont come thinking there is a new contract right around the corner because it is going to be awhile. Awhile as in years, management says we are already at the 100th percentile of pay and that our work rules need to go. There were lots of rumors of furloughs just a couple of months ago. At least you'll get to use paper charts and learn about non gps navigation while screaming callouts to your captain because the airplanes are super loud and we dont have a decent intercom system. Did I mention management pretty much hates the pilots and thinks we are overpaid? You will get the crap flying....multiple night legs. Show in lobby at 1030, back at noon...rinse and repeat....,thats if you fly at all. Nothing is automated here....everything else is old school (scheduling, payroll, etc). this place only worked for me because i live local, im older (late 40's), and have lots of flight time already......if you dont meet all those 3 criteria then you will be making a huge mistake coming here. Also, we are not amazon air. Period. Rumor is they are going to not renew our contract with them anyways. We also dont get hotel points (i just had to add that in because ati pilots do). The guys here are really cool but guess what? That wont get you the flight time you young kids need to get to the majors. I don't mind being here but that is because i live local and i dont care if i fly plus have another source of income. So one more time: dont come here unless you live local, dont mind not flying, and have another source of income. You have been duly warned.

Damn, couldn't have said it better! Sherpster speaks the truth, especially the part of managements disdain for pilots.

I think you're trying to make it look gloomier than it actually is. I agree there are many aspects that need to be addressed.

When you say "you kids need to get to the majors" are you implying the majors are offering them a position and they just can't decide if they should go to ABX or Delta? It's ok to warn prospects about ABX not being "Amazon Air" and being just another contractor, but you know, nobody questions that you'd be better off going to DL, UPS, FX, etc. ACMIs are becoming an intermediate step between regionals and the big boys. That's all.

ACMI is unstable, no news here. You live and die by the contracts.
As far as Amazon cancelling our contract, sure anything could happen. But I personally don't see that happening anytime soon. There's nobody else that could pick up all our flying overnight. Plus, we deliver. If they ever get their own certificate, it's going to be a slow process, they just can't start opertaing 40 767's overnight. As far as losing or gaining new contracts outside DHL and Amazon, who knows. Take a wild guess and multiply it by 4.

Some facts:

No lodging during training. Yeap you find where to live and how to get there.

First year pay: 42k plus perdiem. Very tight if things are slow. If things pick up a little bit, maybe 65k your first year. But plan on just the base salary.

Flying: Seems like it's been more or less slow for reserves. But that could change now. I started last year, and flew every single day of my reserve. Haven't gone back to reserve ever since, but surely enough R1 (airport reserve) is not fun unless you live close by. Expect 3-6 every month.

Pay: I turned into second year pay not too long ago. It makes a whole lot of a difference when you see your first paycheck. 100@68hrs= 6800$ base salary (before HI, taxes, etc) If you're a line holder add between 700$-1200$ a month in non-taxable perdiem.

Reserve: Living in the area makes the difference. There are about 10-20 senior FOs that bid reserve because they're locals. Tradding reserve days or trips is not than bad. Scheduling seems to be much friendlier and helpful than other companies I've been before coming here. If you commute, there are affordable crashpads but I would suggest having a crashpad car.

Schedules: Flying freight involves a lot of night turns. Again, no news here. But not everything is night time. Like anywhere else, it's all about seniority.
Some people appreciate having blocks of several days off. If you bid to combine days off, you could end up with 26-28 consecutive days off. Off course, that could also mean that you could be on the road for 34 days. Again, if it's good or bad, it all depends on the individual. I even heard about a guy that is living outside the US.
Lines are built more or less half 17 days in a single block, and the other half 17 days split in 2 (or sometimes 3 blocks).

Airplanes: No EFB. The 200s are really old. Plase know that nobody is going to force you to fly an airplane you're not confortable flying on as far maintenance goes.

Contract: yeap, it will take a while. Don't think it's happening this year at all.

I'm not advertising for anybody. Just like to be fair with facts.
ABX should be compared to other ACMIs and not to UPS or FX.

If I was looking to get into the ACMI world right now, this would be my PERSONAL list of preference:

1. Kalitta
2. ABX*
3. Atlas
4. Southern
5. ATI
5. Western Global

*I don't know where are we going to end up compared to Kalitta after we sign a new contract. (When, If: key words)

Hope it helps.

You are a junior FO flying night cargo and you didn't think you'd ever sit reserve or fly at night??

What does a typical schedule look like at ABX?? Are there a lot of weekend layovers?

Re-read what i wrote. I dont mind being here. I said that in the post. Im just illustrating the realities as they are, do you disagree with what i wrote? If so, state what you disagree with.

For the other poster: you might have made 65k but i can tell you the pilots who came in at the tail end of 2016 are not making much over guarantee...nowhere near 65k. Those other costs are something you probably didn't have to worry about because you went straight to a line. Thats not going to be the case with these new hires....they will need a crashpad, a vehicle, and will pull mucho airport reserve which pays no per diem.

Most guys came here hoping this was a destination airline if the big boys didn't call. Fast forward a few months and Most of my fellow classmates say they should have stayed at their previous employer. Virtually all the captains say I am flat out crazy for even entertaining the thought of staying because there is too much volatility in the acmi world. Guys who have poured their heart and soul into company will say "get out asap". Should we ignore that advice?

You can paint this place however you like but the realities are the realities. The only way anyone should come here now is if the contract gets done. Management wants to cut work rules and pay (taking into account inflation) so i am not holding my breath.

By quoting only part of the sentence, you've missed the context of what he wrote. He was not telling the "kids" they need to go to the majors. Rather he began the sentence stating at ABX they "won't get you the flight time" needed to get to the majors. Which, as you concede is the right move. He has laid out why ABX is not the right stepping stone, but rather a waterlogged piece of driftwood!

A "typical" schedule looks like 17 days a month - all at once, broken into two blocks, or broken into three blocks. There are some weekend layovers. Not enough to call "a lot", and not as many as there used to be.

In May, I did the first 9 days and the last 8 days. In June, it was 17 days mid-month. For July, it will be the first 17 days of the month. These were all my first choice.

So what can you truly make first year at ABX?

$42,000 plus per diem.

And the occasional international override.

Don't expect more than that, and you won't be disappointed.

What he said. Add about 8/10k for per diem. Second year 82k plus about 8 per diem. That said one jrm trip or rea pay and you'll be way over that. This assumes only and only working your line which won't happen but should absolutely be what you base your decisions on.

Listen, I have been lucky almost a year commuting to a line. Commuting to rsv (18 hours !) with reserve rules that would make the average first year regional FO cringe ... good luck. I would quit. Even commuting to a line guys means 22/28 hours up on your go to work and on go home day. Which is lovely after an 11 hour Lima flight which originated at 2 AM. (Did you sleep 8 hours till 2 AM?).

For a local guy over 45/55 who wants to make it to the finish line.. sure. For anyone else with the current attitude from mgmt to labor..

Let me say this though. This could be an amazing job (why do you think all the airborne guys are still here -- it was) but if leadership cares more about short term gains than long term investment / succes.. oh well.

Again, management is telling us they will pay us Kalitta + as long as we give up our work rules ... (where do I sign ? In this environment I would love to pay for my own raise !...)

I truly wish they would make this a career airline once more but they made it clear they care very little about Amazon and DHL by making (literally) every new hire look a new job.

Ps middle mgmt and the training dept are top notch. The guys you fly with are mostly top notch, sometimes you just have to poke them over the middle of the pacific see if they are still alive.

Listen, if it always has been your dream to fly Hazmat filled, 30-year old wide bodies, out of a cornfield in Ohio at 5 AM please come over !

#makeabxyoungagain :D

Again, management is telling us they will pay us Kalitta + as long as we give up our work rules ...

Soap is pricing his matching Maserati...

I used to be a cheerleader for coming here, but the atmosphere has changed. For the outsiders, I would look elsewhere for employment. Those of us here are already looking elsewhere and keeping options open.

Hey Soapy........are you reading this? I guess all is not well in the "land of failed airlines"!

Considering he thought we were all gonna strike awhile ago from posts he read on this site, we know he reads it. LMAO

This he can take for real though. Theses doors will shut before any pilot here allows him to gut our work rules. He can take that to the bank. :D

Your wasting your time Soap.

I've been gone over eight years. Who's Soap?

Dave Soaper, formally of Comair and Southern. Our new President and wannabe union buster. I have a feeling his time here will be short lived once it's realized that there will be no concessions from this group.

Oh Lordy. Just saw an email that it's not even for real hiring, but for a pool. LMAO

Good luck on filling that pool! I think the word is out.

That is the stupidest email I have ever read! They wait until the 3rd email to mention that little tidbit "hiring yet not hiring"

I got 5 friends from my previous airline asking me about applying here....imagine my answer...:D

One wonders why they're even bothering, given that they already had a hiring pool from interviews earlier this year. The pool is empty, no doubt, but if they're not planning to hire in the immediate future, why waste everybody's time creating a hiring pool that won't exist by the time they need it?

Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question.

I guess management didn't think about that. My guess is that's the way they did it at "other" airlines. I especially liked the part about future expansion, which is expressedly contrary to the crm rah-rah talks.

"future Expansion", that little gem was directed to encourage ATI to cave... can hear it now...

Ahh, so ABX was the carrier "about to furlough" that our VP of Flight Operations not-so-subtly mentioned as a scare tactic to attempt to stop the hemorrhage of pilots on their way out the door.

If ABX furloughs it's going to be the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever seen them do.

But wait, they already furloughed us 4 or was it 5 times? :(

It's like this new management knows they have to play the scare game during negotiations, but they aren't good enough at their job to make it convincing, or even coherent. What a joke all this is.

I heard they furloughed the last group of new hires right after the sim- is that true?

No. There will be enough folks quit to satisfy their lust for furlough.

You never know if anyone here is being serious or not, but taking this question seriously, no. Where did that come from?

From some ATI new hires who know the ABX new hires that were supposedly furloughed after, or during, the sim - apparently friends at a previous employer. Terrible if true, but in this market they'll be at a better airline in no time and with more of an understanding of the airline industry.

It would be news to me if it's true. I have spent significant time talking to at least one guy in that last class. Seems like he would have mentioned it. What I know of that class is that it was supposed to be ten, but only five showed.

Is it possible they only furloughed part of the class?

Anything is possible.

Good lord, no. This pilot group/union would have flipped sh*t. It wouldn't be a secret.

Over here at ATI, if you mention ABX pay in the office some one will jump up like a gopher out of thier cube an say "oh but they are going under, soon, maybe tomorrow".

The hot rumor L8frt is mentioning is ABX is about to furlough. Been hearing it for over a year now. I say it as a joke...kinda like putting that sign up that says free beer tomorrow


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