K4 Pilots Declaration Of Independance !
 

Today,K4 pilots received signature cards authorizing the decertification of 1224 as our bargaining representation. HOORAY !!! Its about time we moved toward controlling our own destiny and rid ourselves of the Atlas dominated 1224 run by people who do not have our interests as first priority. Dominated by those who would (and tried to) ruthlessly sell us out and use us as a bargaining chip to benefit another separate pilot group. Its way past time that we freed ourselves from this sort of demagoguery and usury. Its way past time the K4 pilots negotiated and bargained for us and by us and refuse to allow our futures to be exploited and determined with only the benefit of another pilot group in mind.

Does this mean the pilot group will move towards joining ALPA or remain non-union?

K4 would have ALPA for representation.

Then enjoy being represented by a union who is only there to benefit dal, ual...

That would be an error on a biblical scale.

Look at what ALPA representation has done to ATI, representation by castration. What carrier has the worst pay and work rules on the ramp and who represents them.

K4 Pilots Declaration Of Insanity !

Well it would be if passed.

Incredibly impulsive, short sighted and emotional.

Way to just alienate the group from the larger Amazon/DHL network.

Can't you all see THAT is where everything is headed? Even ATI is *slowly* seeing the light.

And you guys are pulling the covers over your eyes.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Haven't seen one. Also haven't seen a fact sheet detailing any plans put forward for during or after a decertification. I'm willing to listen but it's going to have to be one mighty convincing argument.

That would do nothing but divide the DHL ramp and perpetuate the whipsaw.

1224 should of thought of that before stomping on our heads

Sorry
that honor belongs solely to Southern Air - they make much less than ATI
777 CA pay is atrocious - who represents them? I forget

Exactly who are you to tell us what's right for us?
sorry we no longer fit into YOUR agenda

uhmmm....wut?

Come on guys.....lay off of K4! Some guys like the taste of "sh1t-pie". Let them enjoy it.....their choice!

We do appreciate ABX's support in 1224 - the only major group that gave us any respect

thanks

This is fu**ing stupid. I came from an ALPA carrier, no way...
https://i1.wp.com/goodbyeboringlife....7-1.jpg?w=1000

Don't feed the troll. This is flaimbait.

Couple of questions:

What benefit is it for Kalitta Pilots to stay in 1224?

Why would any pilot group want to belong to an organization that would not allow them to vote on a contract that their negotiating committee had approved?

Why does anyone else care?

Asshat..........

Here's the flip side, lets say we switch to ALPA, and our union gets in bed with the company... Cough MESA Cough... ALPA national won't do a damn thing to stop that, and wouldn't care if we signed a contract that paid us 5.00 hr.
It's too bad that the Atlas guy did what he did, but I still believe it is a better way.

K4 should start their own in-house union. It's worked great for UPS.... They make bank and don't have to worry about the drama of other carrier's issues.

Okay...

Having one of those "can't stand the bull**** moments..." Some of you know who I am. For those that don't, I have been a loyal IBT member for about 30 years. Walked more than a few picket lines with some of the old boys (Benning, Trichlor, etc..). And, went head to head with Connie on more than a few occasions. Currently, one of the old bastards that I used to hate to fly with.

But...

1224 has become a poisoned pool. Too worried about fighting with customers that have very little to do with K4. And, too heavily weighted in favor of the pilot groups (Atlas, you know who you are..) that make up the majority of the membership. To the point of holding our TA hostage in order to make sure that we didn't step on any Atlas toes.

We basically have two choices. Rally ourselves to gain a meaningful voice in 1224. Or, spin off our own local. Not necessarily leave the IBT. But, petition Bourne to let us chart our own course with our own local. We were the founding airline in Local 747. It just got hijacked by a poor Business Agent. And, we have the critical mass to have our own local again.

Just sayin...

I don't know the details but have you looked how ABx was used to whipsaw ATI and being under the same umbrella of representation helped to stop the strike work.

Atlas management tried to stop this and Teamsters won an arbitration so that we can support any carrier in case of a strike work.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

But, you are not under the same umbrella. ATI is ALPO (pun intended). It is good that you can support another carrier's picket line. But, say what you will about our management team, they did not even consider trying to force our pilots to cross the ABX picket line last year. So, what is 1224 really doing for us in the big picture? I believe that the IBT can be a good umbrella for a new local, away from 1224's influence.

Oh cool, its been a good while since someone came up with a thread that got everyone truly up in arms. Let me see if I have this right- the union that just led you guys to the ACMI industry leading contract (and turned a perpetually mediocre company into a place people aspire to work) is bad because every single thing didn't go exactly as you wanted? Or did I miss something? I have concerns about 1224 as well, but splintering is the worst thing we could do right now.

What is to stop 1224 from getting into bed with a company in your example? BTW that exact example happened at Mesa with the CCAir acquisition. JO wanted the CCAir pilots to sign a predatory contract or be dissolved and ALPA National stepped in and would not sign. ALPA told the CCAir pilots to ratify the agreement and then did not sign it so that the pilots would continue to be paid while ALPA stalled on the process. Got the CCAir pilots paid for a bit longer while the motion dragged on.

What 1224 (Atlas) did to us in contract negotiations is unacceptable to me and I cannot wait to see them go. I don't think most of our pilots understand how much work our negotiations team had to do in their fight against our own union just to get us this contract.

WHAAAAATTTTT? The union led us to a new contract? No, our negotiations team led us to a new contract that 1224 held up for the benifit of Atlas negotiations.

ALPA would be a mistake, should go in house if a decertification happens.

Why are you against majority rule?

You are too small a group to justify your own local. Look what happened to ABX. They had their own local (1224) when they were AE. With the DHL downsizing, they were forced to consolidate with the other smaller IBT airlines.

**** YEAH BROTHER!!


The same thing happened her at ATI, exactly the same thing.

We've seen where this goes. We've learned of the corruption here and the underhanded dealing and promises to union officials. Same ol'story different cover!!

ALPA is a broke, impotent, lam duck union!!!!

Strategically, this would be the dumbest move ever.

There is strength in numbers and now they wanna go it alone or with ALPA?

Lmao.

I'd suggest looking at the future of CVG and getting (STAYING) on board. This part of the industry is headed on ONE direction at it's got Amazon and DHL painted all over it.

I think your MEC had a lot to do with making this happen as well, Also what about the hours of service arbitration? Do guys want this or not? I am living with reduced duty day rules now and its great!

Just came across this, as a fellow 1224 pilot this is confusing. Because the Local fought for a great contract, and got you one, you are going to decertify?

1224 has been great lately at Horizon, can't imagine ALPA being better!

I know Connie hates Unions, but really, why give him this gift, he is doing just fine.

I just don't get it. How does someone look at the situation and go...

"Oh wow, the ATI and ABX whipsaw is going great"

..."I want in on that."

No one is giving Connie anything. What we ARE doing is attempting to give ourselves independence of action. We only seek to free ourselves from an Eboard that is dominated and controlled by members of another pilot group that has proven itself hostile in the sense that this self same group has attempted to use us as a bargaining chip against its own management and was clearly moving towards taking us out on strike, ruining our livelihood and the company we work for in order to demonstrate to Atlas management that they had the power to do the same thing on their property. Still have doubts? This same group, and one person in particular, Dan Wells, have blocked an hours of service portion of our contract which is headed for arbitration. An agreement which was wholly satisfactory to OUR pilot group and OUR management.

We are only asking to be the sole arbiters of our own destiny. Pure and simple. Don't mistake this as rolling over and spreading cheeks for Connie.

Ha.
Too late.
:rolleyes:

And for some reason you think only 1224 related companies will be invited to participate in that? Don't you think Amazon and DHL care more about capability as opposed to what union represents the crews?

I believe what he was trying to say is that there is strength in numbers. Separate unions would be weaker than one when dealing with any Amazon and DHL issues or using the singular strength to put pressure on the respective companies when needed. This whole thing is going to get a lot bigger in a relatively short period of time. The more pilot groups on the same page, the better.

It would be an incredibly silly move for Connie crews to do this. If you feel your voice is not being heard within the local then work within the local to fix it.

I can certainly empathize with the frustration of the K4 crewmembers for how their TA was rolled out. However, if your frustration is with the Executive Board, why not just focus your efforts on replacing them at the end of the year?

The current proposed strategy of decertifying seems analogous to being upset at a country's government and deciding to renounce your citizenship and move when there is the opportunity to just vote a new government into office in a mere 4 months.

It would seem to me as though nothing would make the management of DHL and Amazon happier than to see a ramp's solidarity splintering, especially this close to Q4.

Just my two cents. I hope that the K4 pilots are able to decide on what course of action is best for them, and I hope that that course is to remain unified with your Brothers and Sisters at 1224.

Exactly. Thank you.

Kalitta is already at the DHL feed trough. It won't be much longer until Amazon is chumming the water there too.

:D