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World Being Bought or Acquired?
So there's a lot of buzz around the glass palace that World will either be buying Omni, or end up being purchased by ATA. Has anyone else heard any rumblings about this at all?
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I have friends at World and Omni and they have not heard anything about this. This will be interesting!
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There has been plenty of action on the 4th floor of World Airways headquarters. An investment group purchased about 5% of the outstanding stock. They have been very vocal and public abut their displeasure the the management of World Holdings. They have been calling for the sale of World Airways, both in filings to the SEC and in trade mags like Air Cargo World.
At the same time, our intrepid group of leaders have hired a consulting firm to look into either buying an airline, merging with another carrier or selling out either an airline or venture capital firm. It seems that the dream of buying North American and playing off the various labor groups has failed. At least World is back to renting two headquarter buildings :rolleyes: Depending on the day of the week its UPS, FedEx, ATA, Omni or Gemini. I'm sure that this is not a complete listing. It seems that the ATA rummors are hot right now, but soon we shall start a new week. |
Has anyone noticed how strikingly similar World's new MD11 paint job is to the UPS MD11's?
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I've heard that about FedEx and Polar's 747's paint schemes looking similar.......................stay tuned, story developing....
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Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
(Post 141826)
Has anyone noticed how strikingly similar World's new MD11 paint job is to the UPS MD11's?
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All white? http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...ext_id=1160429 I heard we are getting a few more MD11's that we may already own, but are leased to another airline that may be reorganized/merged/sold in the near future. Just a rumor. |
Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
(Post 141971)
Not anymore!!!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...ext_id=1160429 I heard we are getting a few more MD11's that we may already own, but are leased to another airline that may be reorganized/merged/sold in the near future. Just a rumor. |
Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
(Post 141971)
Not anymore!!!.... that may be reorganized/merged/sold in the near future. Just a rumor.
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I didn't say we were buying the airline. I agree they have nothing we need/want other than MD11's, and apparently we already own some of them. My point is that some of those MD11's might very well be getting a fresh coat of brown paint on their tails in the near future.
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That news has been out there for over a year though. The problem was that we couldn't get the slots to do the refurb and so we leased them out to World in the mean time
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Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
I heard we are getting a few more MD11's that we may already own, but are leased to another airline that may be reorganized/merged/sold in the near future. Just a rumor.
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The 3 planes that are leaving are pax birds that were originally leased by DAL from the owners. When DAL parked the MD-11, World subleased them from DAL. When DAL went BK, UPS purchased the planes and aggreed to sub lease them to World until they could be converted. They will be leaving at the end of the year. We are crossing our fingers because the company stated no job losses because of the upcoming B747 pax to freight conversions hitting at about the same time.
We have extended the long term leases on the freighters until well past 2010. As to the paint job, there is a definite lack of orginality. After we painted N803 in our retro 1970's paint, there was a call for a new paint job. After an employee vote, we got the UPS lines with DAL colors. I think there must have been a sale in ATL or DAL forgot to pay for a batch of paint. The ironic thing is that the 3 planes going back to UPS don't have the new paint livery. All the signs are there that World is in play. We are just hanging on to see what happens. The bottom guys on our list are bailing out. In one respect, we are merging with UPS. It's just happening one pilot at a time:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by F15andMD11
(Post 142045)
That actually makes some sense to me. If ATA buys World they will not want the freighters, those in-turn go to UPS/FedEx. That's 6 airplanes that don't need conversion slots.
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Good point (OMNI, WORLD, NA are all on the same AMC/Craft team)
When the waiver ends OMNI will probably have to cut back. Due to the fact that they are roughly 80% AMC. Most of those are Patriot flights back and forth to the sand box. The really strange part is that OMNI was going to retire thier old CAL birds when the new NWA -30's came on property (5 or 6). Instead they are going through heavy checks. They are also hiring like gang busters and rumor from NWA training center is that OMNI bought the DC10 sims up there. However Ive seen airlines ramp up ops and then furlough 9mo later. Just curious, but what do you guys think will happen to all the 121sups out there if we have a major political change in the next elections? |
Originally Posted by WingOffLight
(Post 142088)
Good point (OMNI, WORLD, NA are all on the same AMC/Craft team)
When the waiver ends OMNI will probably have to cut back. Due to the fact that they are roughly 80% AMC. Most of those are Patriot flights back and forth to the sand box. The really strange part is that OMNI was going to retire thier old CAL birds when the new NWA -30's came on property (5 or 6). Instead they are going through heavy checks. They are also hiring like gang busters and rumor from NWA training center is that OMNI bought the DC10 sims up there. However Ive seen airlines ramp up ops and then furlough 9mo later. Just curious, but what do you guys think will happen to all the 121sups out there if we have a major political change in the next elections? |
Similarity
Originally Posted by sandman2122
(Post 141877)
I've heard that about FedEx and Polar's 747's paint schemes looking similar.......................stay tuned, story developing....
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Sorry there Mr DC10pilot, last time I saw the paperwork I remember FedEx, ATA and ATI and a couple others but no Omni. That could have changed recently though becuase ATI may have dropped it. I guess the new owner overthere is made some changes for the worst. With thier fleet and crewing they may not meet the requirements anymore.
Some of the other sups have some frieght to fall back on. However, omni is all pax. You guys have a 757 doing something out of Vegas and the rest is AMC pax through EDFH. True there is always a need to move troops but once we have a re-alignment (if politics get in the way) I couldnt imagine the current levels could be sustained. You may have 9 on the ramp now at omni but lets check back with one another in 60 days. I bet 2-3 more show up. (not including the fire bomber) |
Originally Posted by UPSDISPATCHER
(Post 141971)
Not anymore!!!
I heard we are getting a few more MD11's that we may already own, but are leased to another airline that may be reorganized/merged/sold in the near future. Just a rumor. We'd buy all the MDs in the world right now if they were cargo configured. It's that conversion process that's the choke point. Whether or not World, or any other operator, goes bankrupt in the next few years won't affect (effect?) that choke piont or UPS's timetable.... |
Word is that some of the majior shareholders are ****ed off bigtime. World still hasn't released their third quarter results from 2006, and the shareholders are calling for managements head.
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I've heard that the ATA buyout of World is imminent. Stay tuned!!!
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Originally Posted by FIT59
(Post 143862)
I've heard that the ATA buyout of World is imminent. Stay tuned!!!
Being a former ATA'er, I wouldn't hold your breath. There are just too many loose ends and pieces that don't quite fit. Then again, I have been wrong before :) ... just don't tell my wife! I'll never win an argument ever again! :eek: |
Done deal ... announced today
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Damn it, Jim! I'm wrong again! See what happens when I post. 3 carriers, 1 owner. This may be very interesting to watch. Good luck to all those that will be involved in this transaction. I wish you all the best.
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Hope they read the RAH scope...
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Originally Posted by JerrySpringer
(Post 144475)
Hope they read the RAH scope...
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Originally Posted by f10a
(Post 144479)
What is that?
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Anyone remember how succesful wokeyglobal was? Why can't anyone be creative and come up with some new mistakes.
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Originally Posted by JerrySpringer
(Post 144475)
Hope they read the RAH scope...
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Well, you sure don't want UPS to buy you guys. UPS will not take the pilots. Ask an Challenge guy.
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Originally Posted by YAKflyer
(Post 144495)
RAH started out with one list (Chautauqua) and developed into three companies. It's a different kettle of fish going the other way. I doubt the companies or lists will be merged.
We did "acquire" S5 and merged them into the list. There was a twist, as we are represented by IBT, and RAH announced it was going to start Republic as a J4J operator and whipsaw, ALPA saw fit to endorse the whipsaw company. One list binders are great...I benefit from it every day. RAH Scope D. Scope 1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s parent. 2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and future flying (including that international flying which originates or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newly-acquired aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service), training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division. 3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier. A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing body. 4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement. |
I guess that I am glad that I did not take that job in Jan.
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crgok9...
Challenge had no airplanes to buy..just routes...didn't make sense to buy their routes, hire all their pilots if there were no airplanes to go with the deal. Where is your dog in this fight? JMO Pilot7576 |
The PR says they will operate as 3 companies, that is good news from my point of view.
WOA has out lasted WorldCorp(1st holding company), and now WorldAirHoldings(2nd holding company). Not sure how the ATA DC10 thing is going to play out though with 2 companies operating the same type a/c, sounds like the making of a pilot/mismanagement legal battle. WG |
Originally Posted by Worldguy
(Post 144715)
The PR says they will operate as 3 companies, that is good news from my point of view.
WOA has out lasted WorldCorp(1st holding company), and now WorldAirHoldings(2nd holding company). Not sure how the ATA DC10 thing is going to play out though with 2 companies operating the same type a/c, sounds like the making of a pilot/mismanagement legal battle. WG |
Not entirely true
"With AMC if you add a new fleet type, you can't use it to transport troops until its been in your fleet for a year."
If your company has been providing "substantially similar service" for over a year, a new fleet type doesn't matter. You can change aircraft type, but as long as its widebody intl for widebody intl, for example, AMC really doesn't care. TH1 |
Originally Posted by Pilot7576
(Post 144683)
crgok9...
Challenge had no airplanes to buy..just routes...didn't make sense to buy their routes, hire all their pilots if there were no airplanes to go with the deal. Where is your dog in this fight? JMO Pilot7576 |
crgok9...
There were no airplanes to go with the deal because challenge leased their 75's and didn't own them. If ups had bought everything that challenge had, they would have routes and pilots and STILL NO airplanes. The IPA was not involved or consulted by ups in the challenge route acquisition, in spite of what you may think. We (IPA) are not consulted before ups makes a move; we find out what they do when we open the newspaper just like the rest of the public. JTF Pilot7576 |
Originally Posted by Pilot7576
(Post 146405)
crgok9...
There were no airplanes to go with the deal because challenge leased their 75's and didn't own them. If ups had bought everything that challenge had, they would have routes and pilots and STILL NO airplanes. The IPA was not involved or consulted by ups in the challenge route acquisition, in spite of what you may think. We (IPA) are not consulted before ups makes a move; we find out what they do when we open the newspaper just like the rest of the public. JTF Pilot7576 So, aircraft aside, UPS bought their routes and their ground equipment, their base of operations in MIA and left the pilots out to fend for themselves. If UPS did not have a future need for pilots at that time then so be it, as you stated, no aircraft came with the deal. However, that was not the case...even if it only meant looking into hiring 60 pilots per year. |
I don't think that UPS actually bought Challenge Air. We bought there "assets" which is different. Yes, we were hiring at the time and it would have been nice to be able to do something for some of the CAC guys, and if there weren't so many scabs over there we may have tried a little harder to help. I am sure that what UPS was trying to avoid was an NMB rule where if you take on more than 51% of the pilots, you have de facto "bought" the company instead of the assets, which would have opened the door to mergers and such. Just one more headache that they didn't need. I agree with K9 though, it was not our finest hour at the IPA
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