Ups???
 

If you have a lot of internal recs and a previous work history as a package handler at the air hub in SDF. What do you think the chances of getting an interview without the oceanic experience requirement?

According to the current job posting zero since it's now listed as a min requirement. Hopefully it will change in a few months.

All applicants must possess the following basic qualifications:

*
Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total fixed-wing pilot time
*
Have a minimum of 500 hours as either PIC or SIC in Transport Category aircraft or military equivalent
*
Have transoceanic crossing experience as either PIC or SIC
*
Have a minimum of 1000 hours pilot in command (PIC) hours in fixed-wing jet and/or fixed-wing multi-engine turboprop
o
Pilot in Command, per FAR 1.1, means the person who:
+
Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
+
Has been designated as the pilot in command before or during the flight;
+
Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight

I'll say zero until they open it up for guys without heavy, international, time. Then, I'd say your "package handling" time is meaningless. I've never heard of them caring about that. You're internal recs are what matters.

i dont think that the "package handling" would be meaningless, it shows that you do have a history with the company and a little bit of personal development to go from handling boxes to put yourself through college at 19 and then applying for a first officer position at 26?!?! I have heard that the interview board likes when someone who has a history with the company doing the backbone labor of the whole operation, interviews for a pilot position. I know that "package handling" in no way qualifies you to fly an airplane better or safer than any others, but I think it might be an added bonus over an equally qualified applicant who has never worked at UPS before!

Think what you wish. I've never heard of it anyone caring about it. If you meet all the other mins and are lucky enough to get an interview, it might be a short topic of discussion. If you think it will help you to get an interview, I think your wrong. Good luck with it.

I know UPS has a very strong "promoting and hiring from within" policy, lets say hypothetically someone gets the minimum requirements and then gets a job working as a package handler or seasonal driver help. Would that person be able to apply for the position from the inside?!

Think what you wish. I've never heard of it anyone caring about it.

I have. My classmate was hired with part 91 time only, no 121, 135 nor military. He met the minimums at the time as ocean crossing requirement didn't exist 10 months ago. During his interview he felt he screwed up in the sim., but later during the HR interview they kept asking him about his 5 year stint working at UPS throwing boxes and PM told him she used to do that herself.

He left on very good terms and had several recommendations from his previous supervisors. He thinks his previous position definitely helped him in getting the job, I'm very glad it did as he's a top notch guy...

Ps. The funny thing is he went to the FE panel and was given his old employee number which is something like 55… So when he shows up for his trips his captain and the fo usually think he’s a UPS veteran who’s over 60, yet when he shows up they see a guy in his early 30’s who’s still on probation! LOL

I know UPS has a very strong "promoting and hiring from within" policy, lets say hypothetically someone gets the minimum requirements and then gets a job working as a package handler or seasonal driver help. Would that person be able to apply for the position from the inside?!

Sure, but he/she will still need to meet all the minimums that are required at the time of the application. For example currently: 1,000 turbine pic, ocean crossing experience, etc. Also, they like you to be "current" so it might be very tough if not impossible to combine a flying job with a position inside UPS...good luck though, hope you'll make it...

Internal Recs have nothing to do with getting an interview these days. They ONLY help once you have passed the online application process and have been invited for an interview.

I think that you are being too optimistic about the package handling time. As far as UPS promoting from within: I've been here 3 years and maybe have flown with one capt who used to drive trucks here, but it was unrelated to his hiring on as a pilot.

I threw boxes previously and have the old GEMS ID, but it didn't get me the interview or the job. My MD-11 type did that trick.

I think it may help some, a guy in my class (1995) had less than desired experience, but a nice story about dreaming of flying the big jets as he tossed boxes in the hub. The HR people ate it up! It doesn't hurt

So internal recs dont help if your application if "on file"?

Hot Mama!

You can only have been at UPS for 2 years and 5 months or greater than 6 years. Some people catch things...not everyone is fixated entirely on your avatar. <BG>

"lets say hypothetically someone gets the minimum requirements and then gets a job working as a package handler or seasonal driver help. Would that person be able to apply for the position from the inside"

That sounds like the Fedex deal. I've heard they guarantee an interview if you work for them for a period of time (do a search, it's been discussed before). The problem is, you have to meet the quals and be current. Hard to quit the RJ Capt job, throw boxes for a year, and still keep the RJ currency. Anyhow, I've heard that guys have got in there that way. It's only an interview, too, not a promised job, so I see it as a big sacrifice that has a good chance to not pay off. As fas as UPS doing something similar? I've never head of it.

I do agree with some of the above posts, that boxhead HR types would eat up previous box throwing at the interview. I just disagree that it would somehow be a shortcut to the interview in the first place which I think the OP, as a 145 F/O, is looking for, based on the first post in the thread.

those boxhead HR types are just supporting the backbone of the operation, which is the package handlers. Thats a very hard job and in relatively poor working conditions. I tip my hat to each and everyperson including myself who worked there to put themselves through college at the air hub in louisville. Those were some of the hardest years of my life thus far. Keep in mind if those boxheads arent sorting and putting those boxes on YOUR airplane, YOUR not going anywhere, and YOUR out of job. So please dont disrespect the little people! I wasnt looking at it as a shortcut per se, I am just trying to plan out the next 5-10 years of this "career" the best i can.

oh, sorry pal. so I was hired in '04. Technically it's not three years. You need to start catching more important things like not being such a *****. :D

burn!!!!!!!!

and nice try on trying to get my exact hire date sherlock! ps i'm not that easy!:D ;)

As far as I know, you need to meet the minimum requirements. Period.


Unless you are Bob Lekites son in law maybe or something like that. :rolleyes:

There were only two classes in '04 and three women were hired........... Thing is, though, you are either not a 767 FO or you weren't hired in '04 or you are only posing as a woman. Now, I'll just look fwd to being called a name by you again.

"So please dont disrespect the little people!"

I don't believe I did....

I came to the same conclusion. Something smells fishy. Teee heee:D

i didn't call you a name. unless you have a complex and interpret ****** as a name. insecure much?;)

If you knew who I was, you'd know I don't have a complex and certainly am not insecure. I guess an asterisk is something good then.

"Unless you are Bob Lekites son in law maybe or something like that."


That would be brother-in-law.
One of our management moles on the B&G. Hired in 97 (MIA dom) and can't wait to spew all the latest to the Dark Side.

TH1

As long as we are talking about UPS, I think we should include this.

jungle,
You're the best. Everytime you post something I end up LMAO.

Well, I hope I am the next UPS driver hired as a pilot! By the time I am eligible I will have invested 15 yrs with UPS from package handler, car wash, to driver. I spent 4 yrs prior to that as a controller in the Navy. Went to college while I was part timer with degree in Aviation. Only when I started making decent money driving did I start flying lessons. So I am flying the wings off my Cessna 150 aquiring ratings and taking a leap in 3 yrs at 37 to build twin turbine time. The problem is I have a wife and kids so I need decent pay during transition. I have a job waiting with a local frieght company but not great $$. I know it won't be 75K like I am use to as a driver but...my fellow pilot friends say it is a required step.

Open to suggestions.

Get to the multi ASAP - when I filled out my app I noticed that none of my cessna time counts toward the mins. Single engine-non turbine-non jet.

What a great story you'll have when you make it to the top! I love hearing stories like yours - when its in your blood, its in your blood.

Good luck!

"but...my fellow pilot friends say it is a required step."

It is. I know a gateway manager with a CFI who can't take the pay cut. Amflight is a great way to go.

Yeah, that is what I am thinking I should look hard at Ameriflight. As for Cessna single engine time I am just trying to build time to qualify for hiring at Ameriflight or some freight company like that. I know they require like 1000 hours and a couple hundred ME. I know a UPS pilot who has one I can rent to aquire that time.

Do you know what Ameriflight pay scale is like?

You fly for UPS now after working 10 years as a package handler?

What is the average duration from FO to Captain at Ameriflight? Once you're flying PIC how many hours per year can you average?

They only have a few F/O's on one equipment type that is small in number. I bet they don't have more than 10 or 15 F/O's in the whole company. It's a 135 single pilot operation flying PA31's, B99's, B1900's, and Metro's. How much you fly varies a lot depending on which run you get. With seniority, and the ability to pick and choose your run, I'd guess you could fly 600 hours a year, and that's PIC turbine for the majority of Amflights aircraft types.

Well, I hope I am the next UPS driver hired as a pilot! By the time I am eligible I will have invested 15 yrs with UPS from package handler, car wash, to driver. I spent 4 yrs prior to that as a controller in the Navy. Went to college while I was part timer with degree in Aviation. Only when I started making decent money driving did I start flying lessons. So I am flying the wings off my Cessna 150 aquiring ratings and taking a leap in 3 yrs at 37 to build twin turbine time. The problem is I have a wife and kids so I need decent pay during transition. I have a job waiting with a local frieght company but not great $$. I know it won't be 75K like I am use to as a driver but...my fellow pilot friends say it is a required step.

Open to suggestions.

Sscottky72

The minimums requirements are what you need to be looking at. See what UPS wants and then tailor your decisions to meeting those requirements.

Most civilian guys start with flight instructing, flying checks, etc. (I consider you civilian as far as your flight experience even though you spent time in the mil.) Then they get hired at a regional airline and spend some time there building the magic 1000 hours of PIC time. After that all bets are off, many go to majors, some go to charter outfits, other regionals, fractionals, etc.

By the way, the job with a freighter company you mentioned is that a future flying job?

Here is what I'd have done...I don't think you should go the normal route of flight instructing in order to build time for the regionals - mainly because you’re starting your flying career kind of late AND also because of the time you’ve spent at UPS so far (which I think WILL help you later during your interview).
You need to “accelerate” your progression somehow. Right now you need to fly your butt off until you get all the ratings and until you get hired at ANY regional that will hire you, some have very low minimums. Don't be picky, take the one which calls you first.LINK

As soon as you get hired with one, let's say TSA fly as much as you can so you build up your multi/total time and then jump the ship to the regional where you'll upgrade the fastest, let's say Colgan. I know, you're not going to be loyal at this point but that's ok because you already proved you can be very loyal be working at UPS all those years; right now you need to be little selfish and get your flight time.

Some other places that come to mind is Gulfstream Aviation, Pinnacle, etc. Remember, your quality of life will suck!!! but you’ll be a captain there before you know it and that is THE ONLY thing that should matter (besides your family of course ;))

If I were you, I’d try to get some student loans, or maybe even loan some money from family members and focus on flying. When you get hired at a small regional, let's say Colgan, it’ll probably be about a year or so before you upgrade. Then it’ll take you year and a half or so to build your 1000 hours of turbine pic time. As soon as you have 1000+ hours start applying with Gemini, Atlas, Kalitta, World, or anyone who flies heavies. You might luck out but you might have to wait for a while before that happens, however right now you need the transoceanic experience just to apply with UPS.

Hopefully this requirement will be gone in the near future but it would be easier for you to get an interview with that kind of experience.

Sorry about the lengthy reply, but basically I am trying to tell you that even if you focus on flying 110%, it’ll be years before you can apply. It can be done however, and if you and your family are willing to sacrifice for a while, focus on getting the 1000 turbine pic and on the heavy experience. Ideally you would wanna build pic time AND heavy time all at the same time, but unless you know someone at the smaller cargo outfits, it’s probably not gonna happen.

Either way, good luck to you!

By the way, the job with a freighter company you mentioned is that a future flying job?
Ideally you would wanna build pic time AND heavy time all at the same time, but unless you know someone at the smaller cargo outfits, it’s probably not gonna happen.

Either way, good luck to you![/QUOTE]


Yeah the freight company is a future flying job possibility. The problem is they fly primarily piston ME which does me little good for my primary objective.

I so much appreciate the information! The more info and advice I can get the better at this point. It's just that I have invested soooo much time with UPS at this point that I would be a fool to not finish my career with them flying. I would love to get there by 40 is my objective. That gives be a little under 6 years!

So you think I would be wise to skip the Ameriflight route and start off with low time regional requirements? I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to log PIC time for 3 years if I went the regional route as opposed to the cargo route.

What about your single engine turbine time? Are you saying that it does count? I was under the impression that only twin turbine time counted toward the 1000 hours.

Would crossing the Atlantic in a King Air (C-12) once count for the oceanic experience in their eyes? St. Johns to Lajas to Rota Spain. I don't know anyone on property:(

C-12 2700, C-12 PIC 1700

Yeah the freight company is a future flying job possibility. The problem is they fly primarily piston ME which does me little good for my primary objective.

I so much appreciate the information! The more info and advice I can get the better at this point. It's just that I have invested soooo much time with UPS at this point that I would be a fool to not finish my career with them flying. I would love to get there by 40 is my objective. That gives be a little under 6 years!

So you think I would be wise to skip the Ameriflight route and start off with low time regional requirements? I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to log PIC time for 3 years if I went the regional route as opposed to the cargo route.

I am not saying don't go to Ameriflight because frankly I know absolutely nothing about them, I’m sure it’s a great outfit. What I am saying is go to a place where every hour in the airplane counts toward your ultimate goal. If the company you’re thinking about is flying multi-pistons, well you’ll be wasting your time doing that as last time I checked UPS requires TURBINE pic time.

Now, flying the multi-pistons might help you go somewhere else where you can attain the turbine requirement UPS has, but why would you want to do that if you can go straight to a turboprop/turbojet operation?

Also, another thing that’s very important to consider is how much flying you’ll be doing. At many of the regionals, people time-out at the end of the year, in other words they hit 1000 hours. That should be your goal as you want to get on with UPS yesterday and not tomorrow. If you find an operation where they fly 500-600 hours a year, I'd stay away from it because it'll unnecessary prolong your stay there.

About 12 months ago I told a very good friend of mine to quit Chautauqua and apply with a heavy operator if he was serious about UPS or Fedex. He’d been applying and updating his resume with UPS for many years seemingly to no avail. He was a captain there with 7+ years worth of seniority, had great schedules and was making descent money so the decision was not easy. Well, finally in December of last year, he started training with an MD11 operator, (don’t wanna say which one as he’s still there ;)) Anyways, he was called for an interview shortly after he finished his ioe AND was hired! Last I heard he’s supposed to start in May. Basically he made sure his resume showed what UPS wanted to see and it worked out for him; big gamble of course but unless you play, you'll never win!

I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to log PIC time for 3 years if I went the regional route as opposed to the cargo route.

Not sure why you say that? Some regionals, Pinnacle for example, want you to have 3,500 total time (recently lowered to 2,500 TT I think?) before you can upgrade. Is that what you’re talking about? Not being able to upgrade because you do not have enough TT?

If so, remember I said go to ANY regional that hires you and then fly 100 hours a month until you meet the minimums for the regional that has the lowest upgrade time and NO total time limits – then jump the ship – no time for you to be loyal.

Basically, until you have 1000.0 hours of turbine PIC time AND transoceanic crossing experience you cannot even apply. Therefore, look at Ameriflight and look at other regionals, etc and pick the one (or the ones) which will bring you that experience the fastest! Remember, you’re little older than most when they start the time building process but that’s OK, you just need to expedite things a little if you can…