Atlas Air Info
04-19-2007, 06:56 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: C-17
Posts: 24
Atlas Air Info
Can any of the Atlas guys give me some info on training, the stansted domicile, commute, schedules, etc? I see you guys around all the time. Just thinking about applying. Thanks in advance for any info provided.
04-19-2007, 12:36 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 59
Imagine the worst schedule you possibly can, then add a trans-atlantic commute to it (all the while you are flying with gateway guys who get a positive space ticket to and from duty). IMHO, not a good option with all the contract/expat work available around the world right now.
04-19-2007, 05:27 PM
#3
Legend in my own Mind....
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Hey Cappy, where are we?
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by nathanexplosion
Imagine the worst schedule you possibly can, then add a trans-atlantic commute to it (all the while you are flying with gateway guys who get a positive space ticket to and from duty). IMHO, not a good option with all the contract/expat work available around the world right now.
So what do you think of Atlas, really?
04-19-2007, 05:36 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by nathanexplosion
Imagine the worst schedule you possibly can, then add a trans-atlantic commute to it (all the while you are flying with gateway guys who get a positive space ticket to and from duty). IMHO, not a good option with all the contract/expat work available around the world right now.
04-20-2007, 05:36 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: UPS 767 Gear & Flap Operator
Posts: 271
STN - Beware
Guys,
I suggest you look on FlightInfo & PPrune Cargo Forums, There has been recent posts about the Atlas hiring situation and all your questions are probably already answered there, and I suggest that anyone considering employment at Atlas, be aware that you will be based in Europe at STN, and you will get NO assistance from the company when you have to get to and from work. We have had a lot of attrition at Atlas, because guys come here and find out how hard it is commuting and being on the road for 21 days a month, so they quit!
Atlas is a great company, but if you're a new hire it SUCKS!
I suggest you look on FlightInfo & PPrune Cargo Forums, There has been recent posts about the Atlas hiring situation and all your questions are probably already answered there, and I suggest that anyone considering employment at Atlas, be aware that you will be based in Europe at STN, and you will get NO assistance from the company when you have to get to and from work. We have had a lot of attrition at Atlas, because guys come here and find out how hard it is commuting and being on the road for 21 days a month, so they quit!
Atlas is a great company, but if you're a new hire it SUCKS!
04-20-2007, 03:30 PM
#8
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: B747-400 FO
Posts: 4
I recently left Atlas because the working conditions and quality of life sucked. I left within two years of being hired and so did all but 2 of the 14 hired in my class. Atlas is not hiring due to growth, they are hiring because of attrition.
Admittedly I was naive about Atlas when I accepted the interview and I foolishly believed the information I got from the person conducting the interview (MBSCP).
I was told to expect to be based in STN for 12 months max and that there were plenty of Atlas flights between the US and STN to get me to work. I was also told they would "work with me" in order to get me to my assignment. Also, I was told the most I’d be away from home was 17 days. None of that proved to be true.
In my opinion here are the problems with Atlas:
STN:
You will be based in STN which is about an hour train ride ($40 each way) or two hour bus ride ($30 each way) outside of London. Currently you need about 6 year’s seniority to hold a US base. Atlas does not operate any flights out of or into STN, yet it is a crew base that is growing (more displacements).
As a US passport holder, when clearing immigration and passport control in the UK, you will be asked why you are coming to the UK. If you tell them you are based in STN and are going to work, you will be detained (work permit? What work permit. My company didn’t tell me I needed one.) This happens pretty frequently until you figure out the “right” answers to the questions.
Being on reserve (standby as Atlas calls it) is an expensive proposition. I spent anywhere from $36 a night at a hostel (not very dignified for a mid-thirties, college educated professional airline pilot) to $150 a night at the Radisson STN while on standby. A few of my class mates quit early on because they were spending more on hotels than they were earning in salary.
Jumpseating back and forth to Europe is very difficult, especially in the summer when the loads are heavy. The European gate/ticket agents and passport control people are not very familiar with the whole concept of jumpseating. FedEx, UPS, and American do not allow Atlas pilots to jumpseat internationally. So you are somewhat limited on your choices. I mostly used United and they were fantastic (business class every time). Northwest’s policy is to put you in coach even if business class has open seats. Only once did the crew let me sit in business class. In addition you have to carefully choose your flights when leaving Europe. Even if there are multiple flights going to the US within a fairly close time period, you can’t just run from one gate to the next like you can domestically. You have to re-pay the departure tax at the ticket counter or transfer desk and then clear security and passport control. Also, Delta won’t take you unless you “check in” 90 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. MaxJet goes directly to STN so they are a pretty good option, unless they cancel.
When it comes time for your PC/PT recurrent training, don’t be surprised if you have to go to LHR instead of MIA. Since you are based in STN you have to get there on your own and pay for your hotel.
It’s not impossible, and many people do it, but the commute to STN is extremely stressful.
Schedules:
The schedules are not very marriage/family friendly. I averaged 22-23 days away from home. You owe the company 17 days a calendar month, but they are allowed to take four addition days every month to “protect the operation”. It happens all the time. My longest trip was 26 days. Also quite frequently trips get carried over into the following month. Once you are stuck in that “bidding cycle” it is difficult to get out. Atlas uses PBS for bidding monthly schedules and it seems there is very little transparency to the system. Having PBS and being junior blows.
Politics and Corporate Culture:
There are numerous factions within the pilot group: ALPA Atlas STN, Non-ALPA Atlas STN, AABO STN, GSS, Atlas JFK/ANC/LAX/MIA (with gateway travel), Polar and now DHL (ASTAR and ABX). It’s an absolute mess. Divide and conquer at its finest.
The culture of the training department was pretty surprising to me. I’ve been through enough training events in my career (6 transport category aircraft, 4 type ratings, no busts) to know. It was pretty disheartening to see guys “wash out” during initial training. What bothered me the most was the “pride” the training department seemed to take in the bust rate. There are a few really good guys in the training department, but unfortunately they are outnumbered.
Despite all of the above, I don’t regret my time at Atlas. I traveled the world (circled the globe on my first trip), I got typed in the 747-400, and experienced many cultures. But in the end the negatives outweighed the positives and so I quit…leaving an opportunity for the next sucker.
Admittedly I was naive about Atlas when I accepted the interview and I foolishly believed the information I got from the person conducting the interview (MBSCP).
I was told to expect to be based in STN for 12 months max and that there were plenty of Atlas flights between the US and STN to get me to work. I was also told they would "work with me" in order to get me to my assignment. Also, I was told the most I’d be away from home was 17 days. None of that proved to be true.
In my opinion here are the problems with Atlas:
STN:
You will be based in STN which is about an hour train ride ($40 each way) or two hour bus ride ($30 each way) outside of London. Currently you need about 6 year’s seniority to hold a US base. Atlas does not operate any flights out of or into STN, yet it is a crew base that is growing (more displacements).
As a US passport holder, when clearing immigration and passport control in the UK, you will be asked why you are coming to the UK. If you tell them you are based in STN and are going to work, you will be detained (work permit? What work permit. My company didn’t tell me I needed one.) This happens pretty frequently until you figure out the “right” answers to the questions.
Being on reserve (standby as Atlas calls it) is an expensive proposition. I spent anywhere from $36 a night at a hostel (not very dignified for a mid-thirties, college educated professional airline pilot) to $150 a night at the Radisson STN while on standby. A few of my class mates quit early on because they were spending more on hotels than they were earning in salary.
Jumpseating back and forth to Europe is very difficult, especially in the summer when the loads are heavy. The European gate/ticket agents and passport control people are not very familiar with the whole concept of jumpseating. FedEx, UPS, and American do not allow Atlas pilots to jumpseat internationally. So you are somewhat limited on your choices. I mostly used United and they were fantastic (business class every time). Northwest’s policy is to put you in coach even if business class has open seats. Only once did the crew let me sit in business class. In addition you have to carefully choose your flights when leaving Europe. Even if there are multiple flights going to the US within a fairly close time period, you can’t just run from one gate to the next like you can domestically. You have to re-pay the departure tax at the ticket counter or transfer desk and then clear security and passport control. Also, Delta won’t take you unless you “check in” 90 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. MaxJet goes directly to STN so they are a pretty good option, unless they cancel.
When it comes time for your PC/PT recurrent training, don’t be surprised if you have to go to LHR instead of MIA. Since you are based in STN you have to get there on your own and pay for your hotel.
It’s not impossible, and many people do it, but the commute to STN is extremely stressful.
Schedules:
The schedules are not very marriage/family friendly. I averaged 22-23 days away from home. You owe the company 17 days a calendar month, but they are allowed to take four addition days every month to “protect the operation”. It happens all the time. My longest trip was 26 days. Also quite frequently trips get carried over into the following month. Once you are stuck in that “bidding cycle” it is difficult to get out. Atlas uses PBS for bidding monthly schedules and it seems there is very little transparency to the system. Having PBS and being junior blows.
Politics and Corporate Culture:
There are numerous factions within the pilot group: ALPA Atlas STN, Non-ALPA Atlas STN, AABO STN, GSS, Atlas JFK/ANC/LAX/MIA (with gateway travel), Polar and now DHL (ASTAR and ABX). It’s an absolute mess. Divide and conquer at its finest.
The culture of the training department was pretty surprising to me. I’ve been through enough training events in my career (6 transport category aircraft, 4 type ratings, no busts) to know. It was pretty disheartening to see guys “wash out” during initial training. What bothered me the most was the “pride” the training department seemed to take in the bust rate. There are a few really good guys in the training department, but unfortunately they are outnumbered.
Despite all of the above, I don’t regret my time at Atlas. I traveled the world (circled the globe on my first trip), I got typed in the 747-400, and experienced many cultures. But in the end the negatives outweighed the positives and so I quit…leaving an opportunity for the next sucker.
04-21-2007, 05:12 AM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 59
Whaleguppy-
That's probably the best post I've ever read summing up the situation at Atlas.
I left there in under a year for the exact same reasons.
I heard and read the exact same things before I went there, but I said to myself "Some of that has to be guys just b!tching, it can't be that bad." (not the sharpest tool in the shed)
It IS that bad...if you can't live that kind of lifestyle, look somewhere else.
That's probably the best post I've ever read summing up the situation at Atlas.
I left there in under a year for the exact same reasons.
I heard and read the exact same things before I went there, but I said to myself "Some of that has to be guys just b!tching, it can't be that bad." (not the sharpest tool in the shed)
It IS that bad...if you can't live that kind of lifestyle, look somewhere else.
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