Southern Air
02-10-2020, 05:38 PM
#721
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER
Not quite ...
First, the union does not want to burn down the company. Apply pressure, sure. EXCO members, negotiating team, and most union members simply want a decent job with industry standard work rules and so we are willing to fight for those improvements. Conversely, you are willing to do what? Bad mouth the EXCO? That'll help...
So if you continue to trash our union, where does that put you? If there are three sides in this fight then the union has to waste valuable resources answering to the few that continuously bad mouth Teamsters and our EXCO. It's not exactly like you're hurting the company with the divisive rants. You obviously know from being an airline pilot for many years that we operate under a two party system: Union and company. When pilots start drifting away from the union, they fracture the unity and begin to drag the group into a situation where we all end up being independent contractors. I have seen that movie and it sucks. You know this to be true, too. If you need to change the direction the union has taken then run for office and get yourself elected. If you can't (or more likely, won't), then you have the choice. So, which is it? Are you Union, company, or ... what, exactly?
First, the union does not want to burn down the company. Apply pressure, sure. EXCO members, negotiating team, and most union members simply want a decent job with industry standard work rules and so we are willing to fight for those improvements. Conversely, you are willing to do what? Bad mouth the EXCO? That'll help...
So if you continue to trash our union, where does that put you? If there are three sides in this fight then the union has to waste valuable resources answering to the few that continuously bad mouth Teamsters and our EXCO. It's not exactly like you're hurting the company with the divisive rants. You obviously know from being an airline pilot for many years that we operate under a two party system: Union and company. When pilots start drifting away from the union, they fracture the unity and begin to drag the group into a situation where we all end up being independent contractors. I have seen that movie and it sucks. You know this to be true, too. If you need to change the direction the union has taken then run for office and get yourself elected. If you can't (or more likely, won't), then you have the choice. So, which is it? Are you Union, company, or ... what, exactly?
By virtue of being elected to the exco, you collectively volunteer to face an increased level of criticism. This is part and parcel of being in an elected or appointed union-management position.
I'm not saying you have to be every loud-mouth's punching bag either. I'm saying you have to handle criticism in ways that fit your position. Listen to these guys. Lay out the facts. Admit areas where we are failing and detail our pathway to improve. Detail facts that prove performance. Avoid BS, under-informing the membership and personal vendettas. You'll win the silent folks who are on the fence this way. Ryemex was a very loyal and dedicated member. I'm troubled that we burnt his faith in us as a union and you as the exco. We can do better than this.
For what it's worth I like you, exco. I think you sometimes make some big mistakes, but I dont think anyone else would do much better. Most anyone would get sucked into personality issues after three years of this. I worry you're making enemies out of friends, though. We can't afford any more of this stuff.
I still love you, guys. We're all eating different ends of the same turd. We'll get through this.
02-10-2020, 08:14 PM
#723
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Captain for Skyhawks
Posts: 482
Originally Posted by Bellinbiker
You should really email [email protected] with your resume. They are looking for any 777 typed pilots they can.
Hey that’s my idea! Go to southern, get a type raring, then go to Kalitta
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
02-10-2020, 08:24 PM
#724
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
Yes. The company wanted to Amalgamate contracts in early 2016 meaning you'd have a retirement of 2.5%, 19 days on the road, no business class international travel, about $190 for a 12 year 747 Captain, 15 day "Vacation Lines"... etc.
Because the union said no to the Amalgamation and held out the company was forced to either bring Southern up to Atlas's standards in mid 2018 or fold Southern because nobody was willing to work there anymore. So that's what you won. You "won" your current contract being the same old terrible contract instead of it being even worse after having it averaged with Southern's old bankruptcy contract.
You probably have already been told this but just want to hate on your own union. Poetic justice would be to give you your precious 1% back but force you to live on what an Amalgamated contract would've looked like.
Because the union said no to the Amalgamation and held out the company was forced to either bring Southern up to Atlas's standards in mid 2018 or fold Southern because nobody was willing to work there anymore. So that's what you won. You "won" your current contract being the same old terrible contract instead of it being even worse after having it averaged with Southern's old bankruptcy contract.
You probably have already been told this but just want to hate on your own union. Poetic justice would be to give you your precious 1% back but force you to live on what an Amalgamated contract would've looked like.
I was actually referring to “arbitration” and thought someone was insinuating that the Nikolou arbitration (or the Southern equivalent) was thrown out. I confused this “amalgamation” nonsense with the real threat of “arbitration.” My mistake.
02-10-2020, 11:36 PM
#725
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by Elevation
I agree with this, but isn't loyalty a two-way street? Our members keep the exco on the path the membership desires, and the exco corrals the membership into a decent direction.
By virtue of being elected to the exco, you collectively volunteer to face an increased level of criticism. This is part and parcel of being in an elected or appointed union-management position.
I'm not saying you have to be every loud-mouth's punching bag either. I'm saying you have to handle criticism in ways that fit your position. Listen to these guys. Lay out the facts. Admit areas where we are failing and detail our pathway to improve. Detail facts that prove performance. Avoid BS, under-informing the membership and personal vendettas. You'll win the silent folks who are on the fence this way. Ryemex was a very loyal and dedicated member. I'm troubled that we burnt his faith in us as a union and you as the exco. We can do better than this.
For what it's worth I like you, exco. I think you sometimes make some big mistakes, but I dont think anyone else would do much better. Most anyone would get sucked into personality issues after three years of this. I worry you're making enemies out of friends, though. We can't afford any more of this stuff.
I still love you, guys. We're all eating different ends of the same turd. We'll get through this.
By virtue of being elected to the exco, you collectively volunteer to face an increased level of criticism. This is part and parcel of being in an elected or appointed union-management position.
I'm not saying you have to be every loud-mouth's punching bag either. I'm saying you have to handle criticism in ways that fit your position. Listen to these guys. Lay out the facts. Admit areas where we are failing and detail our pathway to improve. Detail facts that prove performance. Avoid BS, under-informing the membership and personal vendettas. You'll win the silent folks who are on the fence this way. Ryemex was a very loyal and dedicated member. I'm troubled that we burnt his faith in us as a union and you as the exco. We can do better than this.
For what it's worth I like you, exco. I think you sometimes make some big mistakes, but I dont think anyone else would do much better. Most anyone would get sucked into personality issues after three years of this. I worry you're making enemies out of friends, though. We can't afford any more of this stuff.
I still love you, guys. We're all eating different ends of the same turd. We'll get through this.
02-11-2020, 03:12 AM
#726
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by WhipWhitaker
These guys thrive on under-informing membership (giant comms) and making any deviation from their exact agenda a personal vendetta. Everything they write reads more like a 14 year old’s diary than a professional union publication. We are long past the point of diminishing returns. Even if the company survives all the harm the union has inflicted, we will never make back what we would have made if we had just followed the contract.
At what point would we have gained the basic right to vote on a contract under your plan?
02-11-2020, 04:00 AM
#727
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by sandman22
So that's your alternative plan: We should have just followed the contract.
At what point would we have gained the basic right to vote on a contract under your plan?
At what point would we have gained the basic right to vote on a contract under your plan?
02-11-2020, 07:26 PM
#728
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Captain
Posts: 27
Anything with its wagon attached to DHL (also Amazon who is using same formula) is wasted years of false hope and “Big Announcement” promises that don’t and won’t materialize .... I’ve lived it 3 times.... once as an actual DHL employee with a DHL paycheck and DHL employee number.... then beotch slapped over to Astar to become an ACMI employee... then Furloughed from Asstar over to Southern only to carry the same freight for half the money with 5-7 airline pilot groups salivating to cut your throat for scraps.
It’s called the “DHL Zone” for a reason......
With all the hiring out there ..... and the pilot shortage...stop wasting your time and future to have an actual future instead of false hope and promises...
Amazon is doing great with the DHL formula of pitting several airlines against each other to produce low wages, crappy retirement and sub standard yet expensive health insurance. You get out of line as a pilot group and get B-ch slapped by a new competitor agreeing to lower wages and crappier benefits that cut your throat.... or DHL/Amazon will move the aircraft they own or lease (that you are promised or currently operate) to a totally new or current competitor when you don’t agree to the sh—ty contract they shove down your throat after years of negotiations. You have no scope... just union infighting because competitors are under the same “Union Unbrella”. It’s F—-d up on so many levels that you can’t really see it until you live it then leave it.
If you wait too long.... next thing you know... your 50 years old with kids In College and a mortgage so you can’t afford to leave...If you are a young pilot... get the experience, upgrade with good experience and get the hell out..... don’t buy the big house... don’t get married and have kids and the expensive toys.... get experience and get out before you get strapped down and bent over.
I loved the people at all the above airlines.... but I could Not live it any longer. When I left the “DHL Zone” I have never slept more sound.... I stopped looking over my shoulder every 2 years worried if my job was secure...... if there was a future..... no more bull—-t
All this is happening around you while the rest of the world has a pilot shortage and needs experienced pilots
It’s called the “DHL Zone” for a reason......
With all the hiring out there ..... and the pilot shortage...stop wasting your time and future to have an actual future instead of false hope and promises...
Amazon is doing great with the DHL formula of pitting several airlines against each other to produce low wages, crappy retirement and sub standard yet expensive health insurance. You get out of line as a pilot group and get B-ch slapped by a new competitor agreeing to lower wages and crappier benefits that cut your throat.... or DHL/Amazon will move the aircraft they own or lease (that you are promised or currently operate) to a totally new or current competitor when you don’t agree to the sh—ty contract they shove down your throat after years of negotiations. You have no scope... just union infighting because competitors are under the same “Union Unbrella”. It’s F—-d up on so many levels that you can’t really see it until you live it then leave it.
If you wait too long.... next thing you know... your 50 years old with kids In College and a mortgage so you can’t afford to leave...If you are a young pilot... get the experience, upgrade with good experience and get the hell out..... don’t buy the big house... don’t get married and have kids and the expensive toys.... get experience and get out before you get strapped down and bent over.
I loved the people at all the above airlines.... but I could Not live it any longer. When I left the “DHL Zone” I have never slept more sound.... I stopped looking over my shoulder every 2 years worried if my job was secure...... if there was a future..... no more bull—-t
All this is happening around you while the rest of the world has a pilot shortage and needs experienced pilots
Last edited by BeanBurrito; 02-11-2020 at 08:07 PM.
02-12-2020, 08:26 AM
#729
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by BeanBurrito
Anything with its wagon attached to DHL (also Amazon who is using same formula) is wasted years of false hope and “Big Announcement” promises that don’t and won’t materialize .... I’ve lived it 3 times.... once as an actual DHL employee with a DHL paycheck and DHL employee number.... then beotch slapped over to Astar to become an ACMI employee... then Furloughed from Asstar over to Southern only to carry the same freight for half the money with 5-7 airline pilot groups salivating to cut your throat for scraps.
It’s called the “DHL Zone” for a reason......
With all the hiring out there ..... and the pilot shortage...stop wasting your time and future to have an actual future instead of false hope and promises...
Amazon is doing great with the DHL formula of pitting several airlines against each other to produce low wages, crappy retirement and sub standard yet expensive health insurance. You get out of line as a pilot group and get B-ch slapped by a new competitor agreeing to lower wages and crappier benefits that cut your throat.... or DHL/Amazon will move the aircraft they own or lease (that you are promised or currently operate) to a totally new or current competitor when you don’t agree to the sh—ty contract they shove down your throat after years of negotiations. You have no scope... just union infighting because competitors are under the same “Union Unbrella”. It’s F—-d up on so many levels that you can’t really see it until you live it then leave it.
If you wait too long.... next thing you know... your 50 years old with kids In College and a mortgage so you can’t afford to leave...If you are a young pilot... get the experience, upgrade with good experience and get the hell out..... don’t buy the big house... don’t get married and have kids and the expensive toys.... get experience and get out before you get strapped down and bent over.
I loved the people at all the above airlines.... but I could Not live it any longer. When I left the “DHL Zone” I have never slept more sound.... I stopped looking over my shoulder every 2 years worried if my job was secure...... if there was a future..... no more bull—-t
All this is happening around you while the rest of the world has a pilot shortage and needs experienced pilots
It’s called the “DHL Zone” for a reason......
With all the hiring out there ..... and the pilot shortage...stop wasting your time and future to have an actual future instead of false hope and promises...
Amazon is doing great with the DHL formula of pitting several airlines against each other to produce low wages, crappy retirement and sub standard yet expensive health insurance. You get out of line as a pilot group and get B-ch slapped by a new competitor agreeing to lower wages and crappier benefits that cut your throat.... or DHL/Amazon will move the aircraft they own or lease (that you are promised or currently operate) to a totally new or current competitor when you don’t agree to the sh—ty contract they shove down your throat after years of negotiations. You have no scope... just union infighting because competitors are under the same “Union Unbrella”. It’s F—-d up on so many levels that you can’t really see it until you live it then leave it.
If you wait too long.... next thing you know... your 50 years old with kids In College and a mortgage so you can’t afford to leave...If you are a young pilot... get the experience, upgrade with good experience and get the hell out..... don’t buy the big house... don’t get married and have kids and the expensive toys.... get experience and get out before you get strapped down and bent over.
I loved the people at all the above airlines.... but I could Not live it any longer. When I left the “DHL Zone” I have never slept more sound.... I stopped looking over my shoulder every 2 years worried if my job was secure...... if there was a future..... no more bull—-t
All this is happening around you while the rest of the world has a pilot shortage and needs experienced pilots
absolutely could not have been said better!
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