Yeah. I got all excited about that until my fiancee promptly got me back to reality saying the same thing.

 

Yes, that is what I was referring to. I hope it's there but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

UPS gets 12% of pay up to IRS limits as a company contribution to our B plan. We have a 401k as well. On the defined benefit side we have a 1% A plan which actually pays out based on a flat rate table of 3000 per year. #0 years=90k a year pension plus all of your cash accounts.

You mentioned UAL, they have a 401k plus a B plan of 15%

Retirement plans are not dead in this industry by a long shot

 

[QUOTE=Busflyer;154219]I think what FreightPuppy was refering to is that a lot of carriers lost their pensions who were looked upon at one time as the most stable carriers out there. Who could have imagined United ,among others, to be in the shape they are in 10 years ago. Same goes for Eastern and Pan Am 25 years ago.
In other words, nothing is set in stone.

There are only two ways to lose an "A" fund. The union negotiates it away(usually under extreme pressure), or the company goes into bankruptcy and gets the judge to do it. We lost ours in the latter...

 

You are correct, Sir!!! The 2007 IRS retirement plan limits are now on the ALPA website under Retirement committee. There's a note that "catch-up contributions do not count against the 415(c) limit" which for 2007 is $45000. The compensation limit increased to $225000 from $220k. Previously there was a reference to a 15% B fund. The author was pointing out that anyone earning more than the compensation limit will receive the cap and not the full 6% or a hypothetical 15%.

 

767pilot here is how I understand the ups retirement plan

Our defined benefit of 1% (Aplan) is based on the IRS limit for the year you retire (approx 220k for 2007) This regardless of the IRS limit the UPS A plan is capped at 300k. The Flat rate benefit of 3,000 (for Capts or exCapts) is used if your A plan income would be less. The Flat rate benefit is NOT inflation based and remains at $3,000 through out the contract.

The A plan and Flat rate benefit are not the same thing.

As inflation eats away at the flat rate amount this contract benefit will be worth less money in real dollars. The IRS limit on A plans of approx 220K (whats the exact number?) would be 66k in todays money. This is the amount a pilot could expect in real dollars base on the ups contract in 10 years or so.

Of course math in public is scary so my numbers may be inaccurate

 

I agree freightpuupy, The problem in retirement plans is the 45K limit placed on us by the IRS. This almost forces a mix of A and B plans and maybe some other options.

Am I correct in assuming that the bankrupt airline retirees lost their pensions also? Did they guy who retired 20 years ago lose his pension?
I don't have alot of faith the my airline will be looking out for me in say 50 years

 

I follow you and you are right, but isn't the flat benefit chart still a part of our defined benefit plan which we call the "A Plan"? You are right that it does not increase with inflation and must be re-negotiated higher next time (just another bad move in a series of bad moves). At the dog and pony shows we were told that during the duration of this contract, the flat benefit would always be higher than the 1% figure. I'd like to say that they never lied to me before, but I don't think I can

I think that the IRS amount you are after is 224,000 this year. I'm not sure what you are getting at with your 10 year figure, but the 66 looks about right for a guy with 30 years (our max) getting 1% (1% X 30 yearsX224,000= 67,200). If the IRS limit gets abover 300,000, then the 1% would be a little better, paying $100,000 instead of $90,000. Might be enough difference there to pay for some wrinkly old captains' country club dues or Vette payment.

 

Their pensions are at the mercy of the PBGC in most cases. Some of the UAL and NWA folk that retired enough years back were kept pretty intact. It's all rather confusing.

 

If I understand it correctly our max limit on the A plan would be

$90,000 (300,000x 30%) it could not go to 100,000 as the benefit figure is capped at both 30% and 300k.

What I trying to say ( poorly) is this:
the current 30 year flat rate benefit = $90,000 (in 2007 dollars)
the current 30 A plan benefit = $67200 ( in 2007 dollars)

in ten years if inflation raises the IRS limit from 224k to 300k then the flat rate of $90,000 dollars will equal the A plan benefit of $90,000.

Here is the gotcha I think. Won't the $90,000 in ten years have the same buying power as the $67,200 does today? ie the 224k limit would have the same buying power as 300k. (since this is inflation adjusted) Won't inflation have eroded the buying power or the orginal $90,000 from the flat rate plan to the buying power of $67,200? (2007 dollars)

So if all my public school math figures are correct the dude retiring today on the flat rate benefit is getting more "real dollars" or buying power per year he worked then those who will retire in ten years. or ..... the ups retirement (pension system) will be worth less money in the future if there is inflation.

I am just concerned on how to make those vette payments when I get to retire at 70