Daniel Larusso

Other News
Tuesday June 12, 2007

Boeing said yesterday that its engineers have completed "50% of the design for the new 777 freighter" and suppliers are beginning to build parts, assemblies and tools. The first 777F is scheduled for delivery to Air France in the 2008 fourth quarter. The manufacturer currently has 71 orders from 11 customers for the aircraft, which is based on the 777-200LR.

FLMD11CAPT

I think this A/C will be a great addition for us (provided we can settle the pay issue). As posted previously, using round #'s it will carry 4-6k more than an MD-11, 2000mi further. This enables the Co. to utilize it on the routes originally intended for the 380. Continuing to open China and India is the future. Come on System Bid...........

pdo bump

a note from the com chairman..."we are clearly too busy and unified as a union to negotiate the 777 pay rates as we have all our funds tied up overturning this unfair age 60 rule."

FLMD11CAPT

The above response belongs on the other threads on age 60. Also if your going to quote someone and add emphasis, your supposed to indicate it. Second, I don't think your quote from the Comm chairman is accurate......might want to double check..... cheers!

md11phlyer

I and others have tried to bring this up mulitple times, both on this board and in the real world, i.e. LEC meetings. Unfortunately the majority of our pilot group is too busy throwing 'don't wear the lanyard' tantrums to care about something we can change.

Albief15

Horse$hit.

I'm mad too. I'd like to see some changes in our union leadership--not a secret. I will be wearing my lanyard inside out if and when I can ever get off this NOQ leave and get back on the line.

However--there are two points. First--the union members ARE angry at how they were talked down to and steamrolled on this latest stuff, including the retro policy. Second--That does not mean we are idiots and cannot listen to reason. Its very easy for the MEC to say "well...we tried--but YOU GUYS let us down here".

Put it in simple terms--what should we do? I'll take the 777 off my standing bid right now if that helps. What other action should we take?

The problem isn't that the membership won't FIGHT. The problem is incomplete communication and nobody telegraphing keys to success. What does it take to get the company to reconsider pay rates? Tell us and we'll do it. But don't sit around and say "until you guys come around and decide we all know what is best for you, we'll never get you anything else...." That isn't leadership--its blackmail.

So--to be clear: I will support a smart FD LOA. I will support a course of action designed to help stratify the pay rates for the 777. I think most of the membership will too.

However--I'll also point out that if a few MEC guys would step away from the fight, the union membership might just listen a little bit better. I doubt that will happen--there are too many perks involved to give up just because it might help re-solidify a very divided group.

dckozak

Good question, Which leads to a logical question regarding the 777; what can we (as in the collective we, union) do, and what will we (as in individuals do) if and when the company puts out a bid and announces the AC as just another wide body??
At this point we (the membership) don't know what or even if the union is negotiating the pay of the B-777, we only know we agreed in our latest contact to a A-380 rate which provided a premium over our wide body rate.
Has FedEx taken a position regarding the B-777 pay rate?? Has the union approached the company about the the B-777? Are we in a position (as a group via our contract) to not allow our membership to fly the B-777 if the company refuses to negotiate a separate pay for this AC type, or if the premium is considered unacceptable by the membership??
Could the company ignore the union, put the aircraft out to bid, announce its pay (presumably as wide body) and just expect pilots to bid and fly? Clearly this course of action would generate a grievance, would we prevail? Would it ever get this?? At this point, questions without answers.

md11phlyer

Several of your questions can be addressed by a quick look at either section 26.k and subsequent referred sections, or by looking at another thread on APC that discusses them. Do a search if you have time. As far as what the MEC is doing, not enough from what I gather. Several of your questions can not be answered.

In reference to my first post which Albie kindly dismissed as horse ****, I'd like to clarify my position. I think our course of action now should be to move forward. Why don't we turn all this angst into pressure on the MEC to move on this, i.e. put the full court press on our block reps, LEC chairs, etc. and let them know that we want a deal on 777 pay. That we are angry about the lack of representation in the age 60 arena and that they have a chance to save some face with this issue. Plus, there will be no ALPA national/Congress/FAA to blame if they can't pull it off.

I feel just as cheated as anybody regarding Age 60, especially since I may have to spend 36 more years doing this job. I would just like to see guys getting fired up about the next event, and this is it. Many of you will say that it's not worth it because the MEC won't represent you and will do as they please. While that may be true, you're paying money to have a dog in this fight so you might as well get some shots in.

Albief15

MD11Phyler,

My point was simply that we can still make progress, even if we are beaked. I'm with you, not against you, on this point.

Cheers and beers--the H-S comment wasn't aimed at you personally.

md11phlyer

Kompai! (sp?)