That's to protect FedEx!!! NOT the pilot! To protect the company from wildcat strikes, French labor laws, etc.

You are not being taxed at HKG rates 16-17%; work is being done out of CAN so it will be Chinese tax rates.

Who Has to Pay?
China has a multi-tiered system of tax liabilities for foreigners, which has lead to some confusion, particularly over the so-called "90 or 183 days rule". We identify the more likely scenarios and the tax liabilities as follows:
Expatriates on extended business trips to China
If you are sent by your organization to China and your salary is paid off-shore (probably in your home country) and you spend more than 183 days in China in a calendar year, than you have to pay IIT in China based on the days you effectively spend in the country. This means that if you spend in China, let's say, 184 days within a calendar year, than you would have to pay taxes on all income sourced from China (meaning income related to your work performed in China).

Salary minus 4000 x Tax Rate, less Quick Deduction Figure = IIT Tax Bill
Monthly Taxable Salary-----Tax Rate-----Quick Calculation Deduction

From RMB500 to RMB20,000-----20%-----RMB375
RMB20,001-40,000-----25%-----RMB1,375
RMB40,001-64,000-----30%-----RMB3,375
RMB60,001-80,000-----35%-----RMB6,375
RMB80,001-100,000 -----40%-----RMB10,375M
In excess of RMB100,000-----45%-----RMB15,375

1 US Dollar = 7.62350 Chinese Yuan Renminbi

So a 1st yr $42k pilot = RMB320,187-RMB4000 X %45 -RMB15,375= RMB126,909= US$16,647 Taxes Owed
For a $250k Captain = RMB1,905,875-RMB4000X%45-RMB15,375= RMB840,468= US$110,247 Taxes Owed

So while a $42,000 guy is losing on the $82k exclusion, I don't believe that there is a windfall for anyone Company or Pilot.

YGTBSM! PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISN"T A GOOD RUMOR!*? PLEASE TELL ME OUR NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN HAS BETTER JUDGEMENT AND COMMON SENSE THAN THIS!*? PLEASE?
Mark: This quote is a true statement. Those were BC words to the Subic Rep.

If you know the deal Fred has cut with the chicomms maybe you do work in one of those cubicles (not that there is anything wrong with that).

another perfect example of why we need a professional negotiating, not an f'n pilot!! especially one who can benefit from a "quick" deal on contracts, foa's, etc.

individually, we have an unbelievably intelligent crew force.

collectively, we are idiots.

time to make the MEC accountable. this foa should have NEVER been passed to us.

What am I missing here?
 

Am I missing something here?

Let's assume, for discussion purposes, that the LOA gets voted down by the membership. What then? SIBA ... I would assume. That would include double-deadheads to both Europe and Asia. Asia dh's are 2 days each direction plus crew rest time (at least 5 nonproductive positioning days EVERY month, plus TONS of WorldPerks miles!). SIGN ME UP! If that happens IT WILL GO VERY SENIOR and cost the company more than the LOA costs.

This SIBA option works for me 2 ways. Maybe I'll be senior enough to hold this good deal ... or ... more likely, guys senior to me will bid it and I'll be relatively more senior in the rest of the MD-11/MD-10 flying.

So ... I'll ask again, what am I missing here?


Mark

Gee...I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings. Being a former Marine I guess I have lost touch with my sensitive side. Next time we all meet we can have a group hug.;)

------------------------------

Facts are facts; where will the vote fall out. Not bidding is a staunch pilot's representatives option!(which we all are)

If you read the LOA under section D. STV for HKG and CDG. By passing this LOA you are giving a freehand to the Company to do this (granted it is temporary). If I'm not mistaken under the current contract (Prez jump in) this is not the case. One of our previous managers was notorious of throwing in our faces that we had a choice and we bid it. This is true. He also claim that the Company has never forced anyone to go to SFS (this I don't know). But I will say this much, if this LOA passes and they can't fill the seats it is the junior guys that will be inverse into it and I can definitely see this individual say "The union negotiated for it"

Why would anyone would agree to this.

Read the "Contract", no one can be inversed into an FDA. The LOA allows for an STV, other than that if you do not bid it you will not go.

.................................................. ...............

I think I would listen to avi8torguy in regards to the present contract and the LOA. Trust me he is alot more qualified and knows a hell of alot. I think he is someone who should be listened to. He is not just your average line guy but someone who has been involved since ALPA came on the property 8 years ago. If he is who I think he is I can't believe he is wasting his time bantering with all of us. Just shows that our leadership really does give a $hit.

I agree on that. And this is the very same reason as of why I say to vote in this LOA will be a mistake. The seats will be filled with Junior pilots (temporary basis) that have no desire to go. However as it stands SIBA it is one of their options as it has been done in the past. My AVTAR says New Hire. Im not. I have been on the property 10+ years. Currently based in SFS.

Is SIBA really an option for HKG? With those epic deadhead legs?

If it was up to me, I'd replace the Twatter with a Challenger and keep SFS as the domicile.....

I am sure I have gotten drunk with you before at the Blue Rock too. I just don't think there is the grand conspiracy that everyone is trying to make it. It sucks (the LOA). But I do not think our leadership is trying to sell us out.

Your correct, but who wants to be inversed into SVT. Not me. As of now they cant inverse you into a SVT for a FDA. They have to do it SIBA, like they did for for subic last summer. SVT is a huge give back and if your junior it sucks especially if you dont want to go there. Three months is a long time to live in a hotel away from your family. This is a lose lose for us and if we vote for it were crazy. They have also left the door open to add airplane types which opens it up to all of us, not just 757 guys. What is the MEC thinking.

I never said that they are trying to sell us out. I am saying let the LOA pass or fail on its own merits. In my opinion and speaking from my very own experiences of living overseas there is nothing to be gain by pushing this document forward.

Thank You this is exactly my point

It has been done from time to time during rainy season.

Here is something that might be useful for those considering either FDA.

ONE-- French: "Cet appartement est très gentil mais il est trop cher. Pourriez-vous me montrer un autre endroit à côté des voies de chemin de fer ou peut-être près de la centrale nucléaire ? Ces prix pourraient être plus agréables?"


TWO-- Cantonese: "這棟公寓是非常好的，但它是太昂貴的。 您或許可能在鐵軌旁邊顯示我另一個地方或在核電站旁邊？ 那些價格也許是更加愉快的?"

Just in case you are thinking in commuting from Spain

THREE- Spanish: Este apartamento esta muy bueno pero esta muy caro. Podria mostrarme otro cerca a las vias del tren o quizas cerca a una planta nuclear? Los precios deberan ser mas comodos?

English: "This apartment is very nice but it is too expensive. Could you show me another place next to the railroad tracks or perhaps beside the nuclear power plant? Those prices might be more agreeable?

Can't take credit for it.

Hey ECQLO,

Is your avatar one of our Memphis flight managers going out to actually fly?

Check your email

Here's a quick clip of what HKG 20,000 (US $2,666 - company offering $2,700) will get you ...
Hong Kong Apartment http://youtube.com/watch?v=JVtSvNTecvY

If you listen up, you can hear her say "540 sq. ft., 20,000". She later cut off the video, saying prior permission of the owner was needed. So, there's your freaking "luxury", folks ... note only 2 burners on the stove, mini-microwave, mini-fridge, kitchenette (and that's a stretch).

Can you hear me now?

You have to put up three months' rent in advance, PLUS pay the agent's commission of 5% of the annual rent (or 1/2 a month's rent, whichever is less). That's for a lease of over 3 months. For a short-term lease (3 months or less, the commission (out of YOUR pocket, folks), is 10% or 1/2 a month's rent. Did you also note the teeny little glass-top table? That's not a decor item, folks, that's your dining room table. So this is what Webb considers "luxury" digs in a "luxury area"? Spare me. Here's the link to that particular complex: http://conventionplazaapartments.com/ Check it out for yourself. This is not the kind of place you can come home to and decompress after a long trip -- not by a long shot.

Examples from that one complex: rent a basic 1-BR, HKG 25,000 (US $3,333/mo.); with any kind of a view that goes up to 38,000 ($5,067/mo.). To buy a 3-BR is HKG 19 million (US $2.5 million), and let's see how far your $1,200 buying allowance goes on that, huh? To rent a 3-BR is HKG 80K (nearly US $10.7K PER MONTH). Two-BR (rock-bottom for most of us) rents for HKG 46,000 (US $6,100+), for 1,200 sq.ft.

So, to move into a 3-BR, you're coughing up $32,000, PLUS the agent's fees, right up front. How's that $10K seed money look now? More than just a little anemic, isn't it?

Posting on one thread would have been ok. I'm sure we read all of them. Cherry picking and yell'ing about the cost is not helpful.

Why not go look outside the Harbor area.?

Past...

Good night! Another rent thread!

No, actually 130J, why don't you show us where you might live?

Prez

Ditto
 

Not on the drunk part at the blue rock...but agree, there is not grand conspiracy and that this was the best the NC could get, big picture, with a lack of leverage and with members that tends to be self centered and only care about one or two issues, mainly paycheck and how is ruins their personal good deal... IMHO.

(On a personal note, I do alot of ALPA work, not elected. No way I could be elected, as no matter how well you do, it is thankless and everyone still *****es. Getting people to volunteer amazes me, because they always say they are too busy, but man can they complain and don't work to be a part of the solution. For those of you that volunteer, thanks for your time and efforts)

I don't like the loa. BUT, many people from other carriers still wouldn't hesitate to suck this up to go over there, because of the dismal conditions and pay they have now. A friend commented, wow, a housing allowance...tax offsets...cool. The grass is always greener for some.

I also am one of the people that would like to live there...but...Edgar voted no for a reason. I know Edgar well, and respect him on this. BUT, I also think he knows that this is more than we otherwise will get if voted down. I think he voted it down on principal for a number of reasons, which again I respect him for.

I do think if we vote this down, we get nothing and it still be opened. People will bid it. They will get nothing more than what we have now. (based upon the postal contract past)

People talk alot on the boards and rant and rave, that is good and bad. I can only say, look at the big picture, get more FACTS from your elected officials, and go from there. Don't base it upon rumors and interpretations from rumor BB's on the web. There isn't a grand conspiracy taking place in East Memphis, and I do feel the MEC with the facts they have is trying to do the best with what they have and the support and leverage they do and don't have.

I am more on the no side, but afraid of what will happen when and if it is voted down.

Before you flame away, I'm not a blind ALPA cool aid drinker...and pretty untrusting of this company and management. I'm a liberal conservative, or a conservative liberal...okay, now you can flame away.

I will just say that I emailed my concerns to my LEC rep regarding the "up to $2700" in the LOA (mostly about our company's ability to find a loophole in any contractual language and abuse the spirit, in addition to maybe preventing two F/O's from sharing a place and pocketing some COLA money for living expenses).
All I got in return was a statement that the "Management is on record that will be the amount paid".
This means nothing to me and any pilot that has flown for this company for more than a couple of years!!!

Details
 

Press him/her for details on this, as I agree with your comment. I want details in the definition...

Trust them as far as you can throw them...(couldn't throw PK very far...)

Thanks for serving the union. When next at the HQ how about picking up a fact sheet and sending me a copy. I am sure they must have had some facts when they voted for this LOA.

Simple things like:

Where will the STVs live and what will their schedules look like?

Total estimated value of the tax equalization plan for a guy who makes:
XXXXXXXXParisXXXXXXX Hong Kong
100K
150K
200K
250K

Will the company offer any legal insurance if member hosed by the chi comms.

I read the LOA. The language seems clear to me. The lack of a COLA and the varying housing/shipping options is enough for me to vote NO.

If I choose to bid I get 3 options,

option 1 existing CBA

option 2 (B.1 in the LOA) existing CBA w/ tax equalization but no FDA bonus as allowed in the existing CBA 6.E.1.e

option 3 smaller bonus than the existing CBA, store my stuff, get to ship 500 lbs to my new home, get a housing allowance, get tax equalization.


To me, the housing allowance seems insufficient. (Paris locality) It is dramatically lower than what Uncle Sam provides the troops, and Uncle Sam isn't typically known for his excessive generosity. E-1 with dependents gets 2975$ housing, 506$ utility allowance, and a COLA.
website for these numbers is posted below
https://secureapp2.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdiem/


To me, my vote is not predicated upon any actions of the MEC, not trying to send a message, also my vote is not predicated on what I think the company might do. My vote is based upon what I think is best for me and my fellow pilots in the long run. I would prefer to send the NC back to the table to improve the LOA versus setting a precedent that I think is inferior and unlikely to dramatically improve in future contact negotioans. Better to fix it now, versus accept it and try and fix it later. (Worst case it's better to fix it in the next contract if the company opens the FDAs without an approved LOA--something the company has "said" it won't do)
I don't particularly care that some people think I make a lot of money and can afford to soak up the extra expense living within 100NM of some of the most expensive cities in the world will entail. [Unless I am greatly mistaken, when the company opened LAX and ANC, no one was required to live within an arbitrary distance of the domicile] Voluntarily choosing to live in high $$$ areas of the US is a whole lot different than having to live near a FDA for the convenience of the company.

The 2700$ housing allowance came from somewhere---so can the company or the Union provide detailed rentals that they deemed suitable to create this total. Or, is it just a number that appeared in a dream. And right now, 2700$ is 1983 Euros and that doesn't buy much appartment, let alone take into consideration the utilities.

I asked for this from the MEC about a week ago. Still waiting....

How do you propose we get the company back to the table if we vote this down? That is a question no one seems to be able to answer other than "let them open it under the current CBA".

Past...

How do you propose to get the company back to the table if we vote this "up"? To me, much more logical question.

"Up" the guys going over know what they have. Down and they could very well be on their own.

If this is voted down the company can very well take their settlement and go home. What do we do then?

Again, if we vote this down how do we get thee company back to the table? Bueller?

The company does not want to pay to ship everyone's household goods to Hong Kong (as they'll have to do under the current contract).
They also don't want Foreign (or alter ego US) CAT I carriers trying to fly freight in and out of CDG.
They will try again...

I would like to give everyone the extra pay and tax equilization offered. I DO NOT think the ability to JA folks to SVT for 3 months is a fair trade. As a matter of fact, I don't think there is ANYTHING less than WB captains pay, full perdiem, and a huge override that makes leaving for 3 months involuntarily worth the price. Then again--I take that back. There isn't an amount of money that makes that right. I've lived that life--it was called the military.

We are fighting about pennies and rent change and the real issue is guys are going to get sent overseas against their will with the choice of chosing between their jobs or their families. This is a very bad deal...

Those of us that have left active duty would say this is the number one reason why we left. The greatest thing about being a Fedex Pilot is the ability to drop trips, change our schedules, and do what we want. If this LOA passes, forget about the good life. As for the future schedules in HKG and CDG, i am going to guess all out and backs. 3-4 legs a day. Sounds like a bad deal all around. SIBA good, LOA bad.