UPS talks resume
 

{NEGOTIATIONS}
The IPA and UPS resumed contract talks in Washington, D.C. today.
This follows a day and a half of contract talks which ended Thursday,
November 3 in Louisville, under the direction of the National
Mediation Board. Should there be any breaking news pertaining
to negotiations, a special EB Hotline message will be sent to
crewmembers.

Good, I'm sure the Big purple ALPA will be listening since they have no Balls of their on. I'm disgusted to say I'm ALPA. 8% is our openers! Fred Smith moonies are running our union. I can't wait till this gets Voted down so we can clean house with our MEC.

Now we have presented ourselves at the IPA with a problem, We have now let the NMB know that we are interested in obtaining a similar retirment plan to FedEx's and the NMB has signed on with us in getting that, Unfortunately, Im worried that the NMB is going to say that our pay should be the same as well.

Nice going ALPA...

BBDC8

Request for release
 

The IPA has announced that it will be requesting release to coincide with informational picketing....it's about time....let the games begin....

Happy St Menlo's Day everyone...

Pilot7576

I've been lurking here for sometime. I felt that this needs to be said. The Teamsters are fed up with Nicholson. The full page ads in the WSJ all over the world and contacting the Forune 4000 with the shippers survey was very underhanded. The IPA might want to really think about the Teamsters when they strike. The rank and file with UPS feel the IPA are hurting them and using them to further their own agendas. The teamsters had a lot more respect for Bob Miller than Nicholson and Gaudet. Even if you feel the teamster leadership will be there for you the rank and file more than likely will not be there. I'd would be thinking about when the IPA said no to Teamster representation in 1988 and decided to form the IPA. Who would have thought the Teamster would have left the AFL-CIO. Well it happened a few months ago. The IPA could strike and UPS could replace every last IPA member and give the Teamsters the opportunity to represent UPS Airlines. They seem to be doing a pretty good job with ABX.

I could not agree with you more. From what I hear, the company would be prepared to replace us, if necessary. They are fed up with our current leadership. The Teamsters might support a strike for a day or two, but not much longer. Northwest did it to their mechanics. U.P.S. can do it to their pilots. Beware

Also, it is my belief that a lot of us would come across the picket lines in short order.

Mgt. Participation
 

Nice to see some managers on the forum. (soyathink and UPSCPT) Just so long as we are all aware of your status. As far as the Teamsters, their leadership would beg to differ with your assessment. As far as replacing us in the event of a strike, how long do you think it would take to train all those replacement scabs? Don't even attempt to say the manglers could do it in the interim. When the Teamsters struck in 97, the mgt pilots were about 2 days from timing out. Trucks might be able to pickup the domestic volume, but that's assuming the Teamsters will fail to support the IPA. It will be very interesting to see how your bosses will react to the informational picketing once it catches on. I'd say see you on the picket line, but more likely I'll see you crossing it. One more day of retro pay!

Why do you call yourself Trashauler? Don't you have more respect for our merchandise? Also, when mama quits fixing breakfast and stops spreading her legs, you will cross the picket lines.

Gee, The teamsters INVITED the IPA to a meeting two weeks ago. The meeting was a Teamster function. Our IPA rep that went to speak was given a standing ovation by the teamster crowd. Hardly the reception one would get if the teamsters are unhappy with IPA. Plus another IPA rep met with the the teamster airline division head and Hoffa himself. Both gave their thanks for IPA's support in 1997 and one again reaffirmed teamster support of any IPA action including a strike in our current negotiations. So you mangagers on this board go phuck yourself and better sell your stock now before it tanks in the toilet. IPA is unified and none of your crap you spew on this board will change anything.

Being as you are a manager, you'd have to cross or be fired!

Spelling counts
 

"Trash hauler" is a term used in the military for a cargo pilot. As far as respecting "our merchandise", its not our merchandise, its our customers'. That, I do respect. The crude remark about mamma illuminates your low moral standards. I will never cross a picket line, not even for double your manager's pay and double your annual manager's bonus. I would just as soon flip burgers at McD. But then, that resolution is something you couldn't understand

That's right, the Teamsters said they would support IPA. They did not say they would honor picket lines. They also will cross. 185,000 Teamsters will not support 2,700 pilots. Please keep the veiled profanity off this forum.

phuck you manager puke. teamsters have already stated they will honor our picket lines along with ups dispatchers and teamster mechanics.

--...........--

Browntail,

Think what you wish but the rhetoric of the IPA and the attitudes of the pilots and IPA have lead to the teamster rank and file to say pretty much screw you. I'm not a manager with UPS nor do I work on the air side. I am an official within the Teamsters. My teamster brothers are fed up with you and your union leadership. So Hoffa himself reaffirmed a strike? You will see a change in Teamster leadership if that were to happen. I am telling you the rank and file have had it with the IPA. You can stay unified all you want I'm just stating a fact amongst us in the Teamsters. Look around at other message boards I'm not the only one spewing this so called "crap". With dwindling union memberships and pulling away from the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters would welcome 2700 new UPS pilots into the group.
As far as replacements, have any of you heard of Atlas, Gemini, Polar, World, Evergreen and others? Hell Nicholson comes out stating the IPA will not fly Northwest struck goods and Northwest pilots even flew struck goods. Atlas still flew while Polar was striking and they are the same company with the same union. You IPA guys are really brainwashed by your so called leaders. I hope your leaders do well on December 19th when talks resume. UPS has stated they are prepared for the IPA to ask to be released from mediation. I'm sure the Menlo contractors will be glad to take on some more work too. Trust me the teamsters think Nicholson is an Ahole.

To Soyathink
 

Hip!Hip! Hooray! Reality has set in. Thank you! UPS could bankrupt the IPA
in about a week. I would love to see replacements who have some respect for our legacy of hard work for an honest day's pay. Most IPA pilots will cross in a short amount of time. The aholes will not, but we can do without them. I would love to see a strike. Bring it on. We can rebuild without the IPA.

UPS CPT

It is good to know a single individual other than Hoffa speaks for the Teamsters. You sound rather irritated at the pilots in general. Any particular reason? Traveled to SYR lately?

From my view and contacts within the Teamsters, we have a bit more support than you seem to show. That is OK, there are weak links everywhere. I'm sure the mechanics and many of the drivers will be on our side. I think the driver's contract is up for negotiation soon, where will you stand then?

By the way, all the above stated contract outfits are quite busy with the war, mail and other contracts.

The management pilots might find themselves in very uncomfortable positions soon too. I predict when this is over they will be either on our seniority list or gone.

BrownBusDriver

That would be bad CRM. I probably would contract a fatal disease from your spit. Then I might have to file an Event Report. That would mean a Letter of Concern in your file. So there!!

Never held a line in your life. Management. Fly twice a month, in the day. Whine like it is not tomorrow how tough your job is. I've flow for a decade with you guys. Give me a break.

It's 4 times a month. It is both night and day. We are very proficient. I would match my skills and those of most of my bretheren against any pilot at UPS. There are bad line pilots, too!

Finally
 

Thanks for at last tacitly admitting that you are a manager. Not that you were fooling any of us. Plan on being very proficient and exhausted about 2 weeks after the strike starts

Gee, Imagine that, a lying UPS manager. On another thread you were spouting off defending yourself as being a line pilot. James Casey would be ashamed of you for being a liar.

I never admitted anything. For all you know, I could be a Sim Instr flying 4 days a month.

Brownbusdriver,

The other outfits are not flying much mail at all. You should know Fed Ex handles most of that. I guess if they are soo busy then why do they fly for us during peak? I guess they are all at full cap.

No I haven't been to SYR lately. I'm not bitter towards the pilots but am bitter towards the IPA. We feel that the tactics of the IPA by contacting customers and such have done no good for us. The IPA took it upon themselves to do this. Being an official in the Teamsters I think you are wrong about the more support issue. This is especially critical since the Overnight employees voted to stay non union. I am telling you guys that the support you think is there isn't. Sure you will get some support but not even an 8th of the 185,000 plus teamsters will honor the work stoppage. Sure there will be service disruptions if the IPA walks but it will not cripple UPS like 1997 did. The company has already prepared for that. You can think what you wish but if you look at local Teamster elections around the country you will see that the rank and file are not going to put themselves into a position for your cause. This is truely the case since the company has already made a pretty decent offer to you already and you think it isn't good enough. How much is enough? You have only been a part of the UPS family since 1988. 17 years out of a 98 year history. It's kinda like a teenager that knows more than their parents. Can anybody tell me why the IPA elected Nicholson in the first place? Is Bob Miller going to run again?

Confusion
 

So, let me see... You hope the union is bankrupted by the company, you identify with mgt pilots (your comment about matching skills of your brethren) and you don't know the difference between a pri 3 jumpseat and a level 2 manager.. You are either so dim as to be a danger in the cockpit or you are a lying sack. Just admit it both to yourself and this forum. If you're not a manager, you should definitely consider it. You're not Jon Burrows by chance, are you?

You're so right. These managers are clueless. Was here last strike and we will go through the next just fine. Coming from a Teamster truck driving family I've gotten only positive input of support. My local driver says he cannot wait.

Another lying UPS manager, this time pretending to be a teamster official!
No teamster official would waste his time on a pilot message board for one. Two, no real teamster official would, even if they had access to the proposals, think for a minute that UPS' offer is reasonable. You managers just can't stand the truth, Treichler and Zuckerman, along with Hoffa have said that the teamsters will honor any IPA picket line. So go find something new to lie about because this lie of yours is exposed.

US Cargo Cap
 

In the FWIW department. US cargo aircraft capacity is actually almost fully committed. Yes, UPS can pull a few more a/c out of each company. However, most of the heavy cargo co's, POLAR Atlas etc, have commitments to the DoD for the balance of the quarter. They can't get out of those commitments easily, since non-performance jeopardizes their ability to bid on future contracts. Could they find 200+ aircraft and crews to replace the IPA. Doubtful.

Good response to this manager. Rather cude isn't he? It is what we have come to expect from these people and that is why they are lost. I spent 9 months as a kid on strike with my family. Did what it took to put food on the table working any jobs we could find. Even easier to survive these days. Have a number of things lined up plus saved enough to go more than a year. Heck, if they are stupid enough to push us to a strike this would be a great opportunity to attempt some new avenues of income.

Browntail,

Think what you wish, thats your right. You're right we don't have access to proposals. We do have access to the internet and to people both in UPS management and the IPA. Hell there have been some proposals listed here. You have a lot to learn. It is better to have a friend than an enemy. Your us vs. them attitude is what the whole problem is. I don't know what lie is exposed. I guess you will have to wait and see when or if you do strike. I do predict that it won't come down to that but I wish you the best if it does. I don't think cropdusting pays as much as UPS.

As far as capacity UPS supply chain solutions hasn't had a problem finding capacity. How much of the 750 metric tons of wine did the IPA fly between 11/5 and 11/11. There are alot of MD-11, 74, 75 and 76 drivers that are not working. There has been speculation even on this site that UPS has already been interviewing replacements. Like I said there will be problems in service but not nearly to the extent the IPA is expecting. If you strike I'd say that the airline will either be Teamster or ALPA and the IPA will be no more.

Trashauler1:

I hear that Jon Burrows is a highly respected pilot. However, we should not mention names. But that is your problem. I well know what a P3 is and what a P2 is. I did not say I hoped the union would be bankrupted. I said it would go bankrupt. There is a big difference. You need to brush up on your listening skills.

UPS CPT

As Teamsters President
James Hoffa rallied the
support of some 400
Local 89 members, he
also assured IPA leadership
that the Teamsters
are behind the pilots’
efforts to obtain a much
deserved contract. In fact,
the IPA received a standing
ovation when Negotiating
Committee Member
Captain Chuck Patterson
mentioned the summer of
1997 when the IPA stood
side by side with the
Teamsters during a twoweek
strike.
“The unity displayed by the Teamsters
and IPA sent a powerful message
to the Company that we were
united in our goal of fair and equitable
working agreements for every
union on UPS property,” said Patterson.
After spending the evening with
Hoffa, Teamsters International Vice
President Ken Hall and Local 89
President Fred Zuckerman, Patterson
said it was clear the support for the
IPA was “sincere and overwhelming.
”
He also says the IPA needs to be
clear about the task at hand, “We
need to refocus our attention to our
goal, which is a new contract. When
we joined hands with the Teamsters,
we demonstrated what unity can do
for us and we need to acknowledge
what the lack of unity can do to us,”
said Patterson.
In speaking to his members, Hoffa
said, “these are exciting times” as the
Teamsters work to organize more
companies, including UPS’s recently
acquired Overnite Corp. He also said
another key to their newly found success
was quitting the AFL-CIO. The
Teamsters joined with six other
unions to form the Change to Win
Coalition as an alternative.
Hoffa has been touring the country
in an effort to revive union support.
The IPA was invited to attend a Teamster
rally/dinner with General President James P.
Hoffa. Pictured from left, IPA Negotiating Com-
mittee Member Chuck Patterson, Teamster
International Vice President Ken Hall, Hoffa
and Local 89 President Fred Zuckerman.
Hoffa Vows Support for IPA During
Teamster Rally

Hey Mr. Bitter. Plan on getting more bitter. We do not get what we deserve, and we are asking for no more, we'll take it to the bitter end. Been there growing up with the Teamsters. I've talked to a number of them inside and out of UPS. They are onboard and expect the same again from us the next time. But you know, just us alone is going to kill the business.

Nowhere does it say they will honor picket lines. It simply says they will support IPA. Politicians (like Hoffa) are very smart. They will not take out 185,000 teamsters for 2,700 pilotss for more than a day or two. UPS can tolerate that. The most a driver makes is about $90,00 with overtime. You know that most part times make $9.00/hr. Who would strike for a pilot who works 12-14 days a month and makes up to $200,000 year? Most Teamsters make far less that the average line pilot. But, they are not stupid. It is the line pilot who is stupid if he/she expects long-term Teamster support

You know you can't spell StUPid without UPS!

To all of you that think the Rank and File are with you take a look here. http://www.rankandfileslate.com/file...gate_tally.pdf

Zuckerman had lost the vote in Local 89 that so much of you have confidence in. Local 89 is the 4th largest local in the United States. If you go to Teamster.net you will see that the Rank and File do not support the current leadership. Trust me fellas the Rank and file will not be there for you.

Soyathink:

You are so right! Here is another one: The IPA has announced they will deploy informational pickets to local UPS stores in 5 cities. What idiots!! The average UPS store employee and its customers think that UPS pilots are way overpaid and greedy as hell. I am sure it will backfire in their faces.

UPS CPT

Admit it!
 

"I am sure it will backfire in their faces." A fellow line guy would have said in our faces. You'll feel better after you fess up! (bg)

A simple freudian slip

I meant "our faces"