Transoceanic Experience for FDX/UPS
 

I was wondering how you guys at FDX and UPS got your Transoceanic Crossing Experience. Not sure how to acquire this minimum flying an RJ.:confused:

Thanks

I got mine at UPS. Not being a smart ass, just pointing out the hole in their argument

You have to apply elsewhere first
 

Unfortunately, if you goal is to work for UPS or FedEx, you’ll have to take the leap to another company in the mid-term. Southern Air, or similar cargo types, will hire direct entry FOs on the classic. For myself, I’m waiting to hear if UPS will call on this last window – I flew for a Legacy carrier in the US, and now I’m in Asia flying wide-bodies.

We all need a bit of good luck !!!

No transoceanic experience required at FedEx.....yet

www.pilot.fedex.com

Qualifications
Typical qualifications for consideration as a FedEx pilot.




Commercial Pilot Certificate with Multi-engine and Instrument rating (without limitations)

Current ATP Certificate or written

Current FE Turbojet Rating or written (FEX or Basic/turbojet)

Must pass FAA mandated drug screen

Recency and type of experience is considered

Meet requirements for and currently hold First Class Medical certification


20/20 correctable vision

College Degree from an accredited college or university

Eligibility for rapid visa issuance, issued by offices in the United States to fly to any FedEx destination.

Ability to obtain clearance from United States Postal Service for handling or access to U.S. mail, which includes FBI fingerprint check, and candidate must have resided in the United States for the last five consecutive years (except for U.S. military assignments)

Eligibility for issuance of US Security Clearance

1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof, including a minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof.
Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls.
Note: FedEx considers only pilot time in fixed wing aircraft toward minimum qualifications. This does not include simulator, helicopter, flight engineer, bombardier, navigator, RIO, EWO, WSO, NFO, or Special Crew.

All certificates and ratings required to be U.S.A. FAA issued

Has Fed Ex started hiring? Any news if they will soon?

I got mine flying over Lake Michigan. :p

Just kidding!

No they haven't. Still trying to figure out LOA/FDA and waiting system wide bid. At least thats what I am being told. However, everyone I talk to says they will have to hire soon, but who knows. Waiting is pretty brutal.:(

Moondog

Thanks for the info guys. I still have two years of college left so I wont be sending resumes any time soon but FDX/UPS seems like a good goal to shoot for.

http://www.airforce.com/

List the heavies at the top of your dreamsheet.

Good luck.

don't need any...looking out the window and eating for 6 hours is not hard to learn...

Getting sponsors are more important. Work on those first.

Two hours at a time as the ship was steaming across.

Hmmmm....That all there is to it? Seems like I am doing alot more than that. Either you don't cross much or you never crossed w/o CPDLC.

If I was to guess, I'd say never crossed. :p

Yup, thats about all there is to it. It aint rocket surgery.:D Basic position reports and fuel calculations, keeping up with the flight plan, and good SA. Same basics you did for your private/instrument ticket. If something goes wrong your options are limited so you dont have to use much brain power to figure out what you need to do.

Sure its different than flying from Fresno to Burbank, but its not difficult nor does it require the skills of Sky King. I fail to see why some folks make such a big deal out of doing crossings. Its different, but thats about it.

I don't think the requirement is about just the crossing itself. But flying into some countries requires a lot more planning and experience than going from ORD to YYZ. Try flying from US to someplace in Russia. Or flying into Turkey with a Greece overflight. And I haven't even touched the complexities of State Rules and noise abatement procedures.

my favorite way to cross is in first class..........

When I checked out as an MD-11 captain, one of the requirements was to do two Atlantic crossings. These were done on IOE, with mine being from EWR to STN and then on to FRA, followed by a return from FRA to MEM. Before we got CPDLC, one of the more important tasks was the receipt of the oceanic clearance, which really has to be done correctly, avoiding mistakes at all costs. As well, at that time we not only did standard position reports, but we also did position plotting, until someone realized that the FMS's and GPS's that were used to present "the magenta line" was the same nav aids that showed us our position. We then stopped plotting. Pacific crossings were not required as they were very straightforward. Good luck!

What the captain meant to say was that he doesn't need any oceanic crossing training, because he flies a jet that (at FedEx at least) doesn't make any ocean crossings, unless you consider "crossing the Atlantic", coasting out somewhere over South Carolina and coasting in near Ft. Lauderdale.:D

Yep, doing that on Monday to NRT. So tough that I'll need a 48 layover when I get there!:D

there are no secret handshakes required to do the stuff you are talking about. Yes, some gotchas if you dont pay attention or read the notes on the Jepps. There has long been confusion of procedures in the Nicosia FIR on the CGN - DXB route (not a crossing), and even the "experienced" folks screwed it up, but its only a matter of paying attention and reading the damn charts to get it right.

Oceanic crossings are VERY straight forward NAT, NOPAC (even on G212), WPAC, etc. I have not flown L888 so I cant comment on that, but I'm willing to bet that its straight forward and doesnt require a trio of sky gods to fly it. Once coasted out, crossings have a pretty low workload.

Yes, some of what you mention is more "work" than flying in the US, but not more difficult. Read the damn charts and pay attention, thats all.

Also the requirement IMO is there mostly because they can require it and still get plenty of qualified folks to apply in todays job market.

Until someone screwed it up and now we do plotting again.:confused:


Because the airways don't change daily! ;)

I've heard it doesn't take a sky god to divert and land at one of those chinese diverts along L888 after losing data link!:rolleyes:

Nor does it take one to figure out how to divert from BOM to KHI when the real alternate AMD had been closed for a month.:D

Yikes, hadn't heard that one!:eek:

Makes sure you call Tehran Center and Iran Air Defense when flying over Iran. And keep looking out the window for bottle rockets headed towards your plane.

Now pair that newly upgraded MD11 Captain, that used to be a 727 or DC8 FO that has never flown international, up with a new hire from any US regional.

Hey, doing that in a C-152 at night is no joke! I never knew how long that engine really is.

Didn't you answer that question in a previous post??


Originally Posted by Packer Backer http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
I don't think the requirement is about just the crossing itself. But flying into some countries requires a lot more planning and experience than going from ORD to YYZ. Try flying from US to someplace in Russia. Or flying into Turkey with a Greece overflight. And I haven't even touched the complexities of State Rules and noise abatement procedures.

I think that the real answer here is just that, Receiving the training necessary to safely overfly those countries-NOT slamming the backgrounds of the crews who may be flying those routes.

Tell that to the MEM FOs who don't understand the difference between a compulsory waypoint and non-compulsory waypoint. Talk about sounding like amateurs on the radio.

We're jacks of all trades, masters of none.

Uh, and some Captains too! 3 summers ago, I took two former FedEx Corp pilots (the Capt and FO) west across the Pacific from SFO to NRT. It was like I was doing IOE for these guys!:rolleyes:

If you turn down the overhead speakers and hang up your headset you will not sound like an ametuer because you won't be talking to anyone. Yes it has happened :eek:

The really nice thing about flying in China, is that their ATC guys transmit in their own language, but talk to you in English (such as it is). So if you hear english being spoken, it's probably directed towards you. :)

With all due respect, International Ops training is a nice way to spend 8 hours receiving 1 hour worth of useful information. Actually having flown to some of these regions, is what UPS was generally looking for when they advertised the requirement of overwater experience. IMHO, if one retains 50% of what is taught in a classroom, I'd be surprised. From my limited international experience, I've found that experiencing the ever-changing nuances first hand, causes more retention and better prepares one for international flying.

Case in point for my friends at the regionals. I could take anyone at your airline and ask them the atis freq. at your hub airport, localizer freq's , localizer course, and decision height, where speed reductions are needed, etc. and each one of you would know it. Then take someone that flies Anchorage to the Pac rim and bring him into your hub airport and he/she is working hard to familiarize themself to the local procedures that ya'll do on a daily basis.

At UPS, the new collective baragining agreement shifts the Relief Officer position (IRO) from Capts to F/O's. Specifically from Captains to newhires. Thus the FAA has suggested strongly, that if you want new hires as IROs, and F/Os on widebody equipment coupled with possibly junior Capts which may have come off a domestic airplane since ANC is our junior base, then you will hire, new-hires with overwater international experience. The FAA has suggested the alternative to that hiring procedure is increased observation and scrutiny of its ANC operation (line checks and ramp checks). So given the choice, would you hire the international widebody captain from another airline or the RJ captain and risk the FAA giving that person (and their crew) a line check based on training they received back in Louisville. This isnt a slam on anyone's background, I have almost 5 years at the regionals myself. It's just the way UPS and the FAA are running ANC flights based on what they negotiated in the latest contract.

So this isnt a slam of any nature, just a business plan

Uh, same for France!:rolleyes:

FliFast, the intent of my post was not to challenge the policy at UPS regarding the international ops training, or for that matter the requirement for international over water experience. I agree that having both is a definite benefit to UPS, especially in light of the territories that are flown over during these operations.

My post was misunderstood(you can't really represent sarcasim(sp) or inference with the written word), as it was a response to Packer Backer's jab at regional pilots as being inept seat warmers(or at least that is how I interpreted it). My company has a lot of pilots that are serving or have rotated out of those hot zones, in air combat roles, and his statement led me to believe that he views us(regional pilots) as UnSat in our abilities or vigilance. Train us and watch what we can accomplish-that was the gist of my post.

The hardest part of Int'l flying is the language barrier--you have to know ahead of time what you expect to hear and hope they say something remotely similar. After 15 years of Int'l flying and visiting every continent, there are still radio calls that I find myself and the other pilot looking at each other and saying "****". And if you are from the South, just forget it.

Dang strait,

that ICAO don't cover the southern edition of English ...

Know what i mean ??

15789,
I get the gist of your post. As a former Regional pilot with old Cactus Crew, for a good many years; I know exactly how hard it is to do that job...crummy hotels, no food, stand-ups...should I go on ? Undeniably, flying at the Regionals is demanding.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you position of "train us and watch our progress". A valid argument, but remember there are already thousands of applicants out there that are already trained and experienced...that's the gist of my response...no offense intended.

As far as the other comments, I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the folks that have served our Country: past, present, future...period.
However, at UPS we don't fly to hot zones, we don't do Aerial Refueling, I've never heard (yet), "UPS 3-4, going tactical with a flight of three MD11s"...except maybe at the bar.

We work at a worldwide freight airline, flying transport category jets...those are the only toys we have to play with.

Cactus, I know whatcha mean, Vern....the other day in Hong Kong, I told the controller, "We is fixin to land"...and he said, the runway doesn't need fixin, but if you break it, you buy it. Now that, 15789, is a good example of international experience. (sarcasm costs extra).

FF