French Labor Laws
07-27-2007, 09:25 AM
#1
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French Labor Laws
PARIS (AFP) - France's highest court on Wednesday ruled that local labour laws applies to Ryanair and easyJet cabin staff based in France, the civil aviation authority DGAC said.
The Conseil d'Etat rejected a claim by both low-cost airlines that their cabin staff worked for company headquarters outside France and were therefore not subject to French law.
The court said the operating base of staff was located "where employees work, where they begin their service and to where they return once their mission is accomplished".
British airline easyJet said it had already started conforming to French labour law, but Irish carrier Ryanair said it would take the case to the European Court of Justice.
So vote the POS LOA down, bid CDG and then appeal that the French Labour laws apply to us. If the company wants us to sign a piece of paper stating we will follow the RLA(as w/ in the LOA) then come back with a better LOA.
The Conseil d'Etat rejected a claim by both low-cost airlines that their cabin staff worked for company headquarters outside France and were therefore not subject to French law.
The court said the operating base of staff was located "where employees work, where they begin their service and to where they return once their mission is accomplished".
British airline easyJet said it had already started conforming to French labour law, but Irish carrier Ryanair said it would take the case to the European Court of Justice.
So vote the POS LOA down, bid CDG and then appeal that the French Labour laws apply to us. If the company wants us to sign a piece of paper stating we will follow the RLA(as w/ in the LOA) then come back with a better LOA.
Last edited by HankHill; 07-27-2007 at 09:39 AM.
07-27-2007, 09:28 AM
#2
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Originally Posted by HankHill
So vote the POS LOA down, bid CFG and then appeal that the French Labour laws apply to us.
07-27-2007, 09:43 AM
#3
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Skip The Typo
cgn, cdg, who cares. this is a huge ruling that we need to seize. the company NEEDS this LOA. Let the sweeten the pot.
this should be printed and posted or locker stuffed immediately!
this should be printed and posted or locker stuffed immediately!
07-27-2007, 09:49 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by HankHill
PARIS (AFP) - France's highest court on Wednesday ruled that local labour laws applies to Ryanair and easyJet cabin staff based in France, the civil aviation authority DGAC said.
The Conseil d'Etat rejected a claim by both low-cost airlines that their cabin staff worked for company headquarters outside France and were therefore not subject to French law.
The court said the operating base of staff was located "where employees work, where they begin their service and to where they return once their mission is accomplished".
British airline easyJet said it had already started conforming to French labour law, but Irish carrier Ryanair said it would take the case to the European Court of Justice.
So vote the POS LOA down, bid CDG and then appeal that the French Labour laws apply to us. If the company wants us to sign a piece of paper stating we will follow the RLA(as w/ in the LOA) then come back with a better LOA.
The Conseil d'Etat rejected a claim by both low-cost airlines that their cabin staff worked for company headquarters outside France and were therefore not subject to French law.
The court said the operating base of staff was located "where employees work, where they begin their service and to where they return once their mission is accomplished".
British airline easyJet said it had already started conforming to French labour law, but Irish carrier Ryanair said it would take the case to the European Court of Justice.
So vote the POS LOA down, bid CDG and then appeal that the French Labour laws apply to us. If the company wants us to sign a piece of paper stating we will follow the RLA(as w/ in the LOA) then come back with a better LOA.
07-27-2007, 09:50 AM
#5
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I think the main reason the company wanted to "negotiate" this LOA is to ensure we don't fall under French labor laws.
From the LOA:
2. I understand as a pilot assigned to the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA that I am permanently domiciled in Memphis, Tennessee. I think this is the legal way the company can say we're not based there, just working there for a couple years.
5 During the period of the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA assignment, the laws of the United States and the laws of the states within the United States shall at all times apply to the employment relationship between me and Federal Express. Neither the laws of France, China or Hong Kong nor the laws of any other country or territory shall apply to the employment relationship between Federal Express and me. I think that means we can't go to frog labor court.
6 As a pilot for Federal Express, I understand I shall remain under the supervision of, and receive flight assignments from Federal Express’s Flight Operations group in Memphis, TN, which is responsible for all Federal Express flight operations worldwide.
7 I shall continue to be a member of the craft or class of fight deck crewmembers of Federal Express currently represented by ALPA pursuant to the Railway Labor Act. ALPA will continue to act as my exclusive collective bargaining representative during my assignment at the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA.Says RLA applies during
8 During my assignment at the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA, I shall remain subject to all applicable United States laws and regulations, including but not limited to those governing aviation qualification, requalification, proficiency, and certification.
9 Any dispute between myself and Federal Express over the interpretation of the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement shall be resolved in accordance with the provisions of Sections 19, 20, and 21 of that collective bargaining agreement.
10 No court or agency outside the United States, including those in France, China, or Hong Kong, shall have jurisdiction to consider claims arising out of the employment relationship between Federal Express and myself.
11 I understand and agree that jurisdiction over any alleged violation of laws applicable to me as a result of my employment by Federal Express shall be vested exclusively in a federal or state court of competent jurisdiction in the United States, or a United States or state administrative agency of competent jurisdiction, as appropriate under the laws of the United States and the laws of the states within the United States.
It seems these stipulations they are asking us to sign are to keep us and the frogs from taking Fred to Frog court, which is more labor friendly. IMHO.
From the LOA:
2. I understand as a pilot assigned to the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA that I am permanently domiciled in Memphis, Tennessee. I think this is the legal way the company can say we're not based there, just working there for a couple years.
5 During the period of the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA assignment, the laws of the United States and the laws of the states within the United States shall at all times apply to the employment relationship between me and Federal Express. Neither the laws of France, China or Hong Kong nor the laws of any other country or territory shall apply to the employment relationship between Federal Express and me. I think that means we can't go to frog labor court.
6 As a pilot for Federal Express, I understand I shall remain under the supervision of, and receive flight assignments from Federal Express’s Flight Operations group in Memphis, TN, which is responsible for all Federal Express flight operations worldwide.
7 I shall continue to be a member of the craft or class of fight deck crewmembers of Federal Express currently represented by ALPA pursuant to the Railway Labor Act. ALPA will continue to act as my exclusive collective bargaining representative during my assignment at the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA.Says RLA applies during
8 During my assignment at the CDG FDA and/or the HKG FDA, I shall remain subject to all applicable United States laws and regulations, including but not limited to those governing aviation qualification, requalification, proficiency, and certification.
9 Any dispute between myself and Federal Express over the interpretation of the provisions of the collective bargaining agreement shall be resolved in accordance with the provisions of Sections 19, 20, and 21 of that collective bargaining agreement.
10 No court or agency outside the United States, including those in France, China, or Hong Kong, shall have jurisdiction to consider claims arising out of the employment relationship between Federal Express and myself.
11 I understand and agree that jurisdiction over any alleged violation of laws applicable to me as a result of my employment by Federal Express shall be vested exclusively in a federal or state court of competent jurisdiction in the United States, or a United States or state administrative agency of competent jurisdiction, as appropriate under the laws of the United States and the laws of the states within the United States.
It seems these stipulations they are asking us to sign are to keep us and the frogs from taking Fred to Frog court, which is more labor friendly. IMHO.
07-27-2007, 10:34 AM
#6
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Posts: 732
Does anyone know if Ryan/Easyjet are employing French Citizens in CDG or are they also using expats ?
If it is only French, then I think we are talking apples and oranges here. This would be like FedEx not following French Labor Laws with our local employees in CDG who are citizens.
BTW, we all have seen many a FedEx US Mechanic in CDG, DEL etc.., how are these folks treated. Do they have "Special Skills" that warrant expat packages ? It would be interesting to find out that info.
If it is only French, then I think we are talking apples and oranges here. This would be like FedEx not following French Labor Laws with our local employees in CDG who are citizens.
BTW, we all have seen many a FedEx US Mechanic in CDG, DEL etc.., how are these folks treated. Do they have "Special Skills" that warrant expat packages ? It would be interesting to find out that info.
07-27-2007, 10:42 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by 2cylinderdriver
.... BTW, we all have seen many a FedEx US Mechanic in CDG, DEL etc.., how are these folks treated. Do they have "Special Skills" that warrant expat packages ? It would be interesting to find out that info.
I think the long term deals are done based on the seniority of those applying. I'm not sure what kind of expat deal they get on the long term stuff.
07-27-2007, 02:04 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by iarapilot
Exactly why the company put the "scope" language in the LOA. It is to protect their rears ends, not to enhance our supposed scope protections. Fairly obvious, in my opinion. Some of the crew force needs to be a little more skeptical about all aspects of this LOA. Think.....worst case scenario.
There is No "scope" language in the LOA --- zero, zip, nada!
Of course, there is verbiage that in the work agreement stating the pilots are only governed under US law.
I really wonder what would happen if someone who is a dual citizen (US & France) bids CDG and then has an issue he takes to a French court.
My guess, the French Judge would throw out any FEDEX lawyer that tried to tell him that French law doesn't apply to a French citizen living in France, regardless of what agreement his company forced him to sign.
Think about it from the US perspective --- wouldn't we expect our courts to do the same thing for a US citizen, living and working in the US, who happened to be employed by a foreign company.
The work agreement is there to strong arm/intimidate any pilots who would even contemplate making a grievance under foreign laws.
It only holds up if the foreign court allows it to.
07-27-2007, 03:35 PM
#10
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There is No "scope" language in the LOA --- zero, zip, nada!
I definitely agree.....there is no "scope" language in the LOA. That is why I put it in quotes. It is just another misnomer, misleading word that some have used. Kinda like tax equalization and others.
I definitely agree.....there is no "scope" language in the LOA. That is why I put it in quotes. It is just another misnomer, misleading word that some have used. Kinda like tax equalization and others.
