Cargo mergers?
 

With all the passenger airline merger talk, age 65, economic issues and Fedex and UPS always trying to up one another, does anyone see any big news coming from either one? Atlas, Polar, DHL??? Any chance of the A380 coming back to the freight side soon?

Thanx!

Wouldn't be surprised to see UPS purchase Atlas to get the 400s and -8s.

How would that work with their Polar division that DHL owns 25% of? Or is it 49% of Polar and 25% of the vote? Can't remember but either way, how would that work? Also, I can see about getting their 400s but their 8s? Isn't the first delivery scheduled for 2010?

As far as mergers - FedEx and UPS is old news - everyone knows that FedUPS is inevitable! ;)

I like to see us buy American. I can help out with how we integrate them on our seniority list.

Let me give this a try.......DHL owns 49% of Polar, and has a 25% voting right. Polar is owned by the same holding company that owns Atlas Air, Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings (AAWW). Atlas could be bought and not have any effect on Polar and visa versa. We are still separate...for the time being.

The -8's are being purchased by Atlas Air. Polar has six -400's that are theirs.

Now, now, Fli. Remember, "turn the other cheek" and all. :D Actually, when i was at ATA, we had a classmate who was TWA, and he said on his last day at AA, after he got off the airplane and into the terminal, he walked up tp a garbage can and tossed his hat into it. Walking a little further, he comes up to another garbage can and in goes his blazer. This continued until all evidence of AA was gone. :D (Now, if he really had done it that way, what a great exit!)

Funny how all the trash cans were full that day...:D

sorry..back to the thread.

FF

yeah - the thread was about cargo MERGERS - not ACQUISITIONS anyway

why would someone bring up AA's acquisition of TWA in a thread about mergers anyway?

AFW,

Why bring it up ?

That's an excellent question. Consolidation takes many forms: Merger, acquistion whether friendly or hostile.
It seems immient that the passenger side of the airline industry is about to engage in a round of consolidations. Many pilot unions have taken notes of the transactions between AA/TWA and USAir and Am. West. It is my humble opinion that in this next round of mergers Local unions will take measures to protect themselves from what was done in the lopsided seniority list merger at TWA/AA and try to find other alternatives to the merger at US/AWA.

IF, the cargo industry engages in consolidation, the most important issue to me would be my surviving seniority. I would presume that would be very important to you also. In my opinion, this was the genesis for Congress to pass legislation hoping to avoid another lopsided seniority list merger.

I hope this answers your question. One question for you, are you a former American Airlines pilot ?

FF

Because some people are still not happy about their "rightful place" (what B.S.)

Just wondering if that dead horse was the one wearing blinders?

There are former APA pilot's in SDF, MIA and ONT too. And if there are mergers in the Cargo industry then there will be former APA pilots senior to you on 3 seniority lists.

Isn't there enough for you to worry about at Brown with (over 60 NBs, Whale Displacements and Vacancies ect...) not to be dredging up over and over and over again stuff from 6 years ago? We get it, You think you got hosed. Well guess what, a lot of us think we did too.

Get over it already.

DFW,

I guessing your a former American Airlines pilot also. I know many of you claim the TWA pilots screwed you. Rightful Place was ALPA's version of the merger, which would have been fair. For those that don't know the framework of "Rightful Place", it is the following.

ALL American Airlines Widebody Capts retain their place on the seniority list
Then All TWA widebody Capts are slotted in after them

All American Airlines narrowbody Capts would be placed after the TWA widebody Capts.
Then TWA Narrowbody Capt would go after the AA narrowbody Capts.

The same formula would be applied to all First Officers.

TWA pilots would be fenced off all aircraft that they didnt bring to the merger (MD11, A300, 777), thus allowing the AA narrowbody pilots to transition to widebody positions and enjoy pay raises.

It may sound like BS to an American Airlines pilot, but not to most others.

And I'm just guessing since Congress just enacted legislation that the dirty laundry you hoped had died, is actually one in the spotlight now.

As far as worrying about age 60 NBs, Whale displacements, what can you or I do about it. We can have a letter writing campaign to Congress like the one we (at TWA) did about the AA/TWA merger, maybe it to will enact legislation; however I don't think Congress will view the age 60 NBs or the Whale displacements as detrimental to the industry as the APA driven seniority integration.

What do you think, DFW ?

Lastly, "get over it"....you're not serious, are you ? LOL...

FF

I have no side in this argument, but have always heard from the TWA side how they got screwed in the merger, and they did. From the AA side comes "We saved their jobs by buying TWA, they should be grateful". And maybe they should.

Remember the truth lies in the eyes of the beholder, and this is one ugly baby no matter who's looking at it.

Enough of the old crap. **** happens in every industry, pull yourself up and get on another horse and continue the race to 60 or 65. Thats life, Its not fair, make the best of it and enjoy it, it's to short.:)

FliFast,


Read the thread title

CARGO MERGERS

I don't get on your AA threads and talk about cargo.

When AA get's a cargo division, we can bring up your TWA/AA boondoggle.

Here you go -- FedEx and UPS merge = FedUP ;)

Here you go. :D


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...SF)/1176818/M/

Cool. N676UP. Got lots of time in that one.

"I don't get on your"...what the heck are you trying to say ?

Actually AA does have a cargo division...might wanna check it out.

https://www.aacargo.com/

Here's the point Gunter, the most recent merger of seniority lists of late was the one at American Airlines/TWA and USAir/AWA. IF, cargo carriers do merge, where do you think they will look for ideas for the framework of a seniority integration. Ummm, maybe they will look at most recent mergers.

I'll give you a basic example, easily digestible for you. When pilot groups negotiate contracts they look around the industry to see what everyone else is doing. In the event of a cargo merger, do you think all parties will look around the industry to see what the others have done.

The AA/TWA seniority list merger set a precedent in that it generated a rare occurence that Congress stepped in to prevent this from happening again. I would presume the most recent legislation would apply in the event of a cargo merger. Can you show me where Cargo carriers would be exempt from this legislation.

Last question, are you a former AA pilot also ?

If you need any further info on this boondoggle...whatever you call it, P.M. I'll be happy to further explain.

Thanks for your post,

FF

ps Gunter, sorry if you're not as interested as I am on how cargo pilots would be integrated if there was a merger. I think most others are interested in the topic.

o.k. I got my fill of AA/TWA arguments 2 or 3 years ago and just didn't expect to get more of it on this cargo thread.

I wasn't personally affected but have heard A LOT about the unfair treatment of TWA guys. I also don't like how USAir guys made out either.


I was just hoping to get some inside info on a merger or acquisition of assets. I alread know more about the problems with integration than I care to. I can see this is an integration thread and will now steer clear.

Cheers.